Lessons Learned

When there is a ledge mid pitch with tougher moves above placing a cam with a long sling right after getting off the deck won't protect you.
Instead I'll place a cam and clip the rope a racking biner. When that piece is at high thigh level place your next piece and pull that first cam. Reduces the chance of hitting that ledge and still keeps a straighter rope run.

Oh, good call. I've definitely been there, placed in favor of my ankles, and deeply regretted it when I watched my rope running over the edge. That's a really nice solution. Also, for ledges, a regular shoulder length sling is usually not enough (two lessons learned in one for me, lol).

Nick Drake wrote:When there is a ledge mid pitch with tougher moves above placing a cam with a long sling right after getting off the deck won't protect you. Instead I'll place a cam and clip the rope a racking biner. When that piece is at high thigh level place your next piece and pull that first cam. Reduces the chance of hitting that ledge and still keeps a straighter rope run.

This! I find myself placing temporary pieces to prevent a ledge falls and then back cleaning then afterwards after I make the move.

I learned that lesson the VERY hard way. Almost halfway up the route on a low class 5 on north ridge of Stuart, plugged a #1 with a double sling before the base of a mid 5 bump. Got about 6-10 feet up the vertical section, no gear in "because of drag", in a shitty thin hand jam. Tried to get to my chalk bag, pack with bivy gear was blocking it. Got nervous, hands sweat more. Tug on chalk bag to spin it around, when it popped around my hand blew right out of the jam.

Dropped to the low angle terrain, landed on my feet and tumbled over backwards. Cracked the back of my helmet, got a concussion. Pack took a brunt of it, but bruised my hip up pretty well. Total distance was a good +20 feet.

Partner finished the pitch and we bivied after that. He won the partner of the year award by leading the entire rest of the ridge in BLOCK the next day. My lead head was shot.

I really wish I had of learned that lesson at a crag and not 800-1000 feet up a remote alpine route. I'm damn lucky it turned out how it did!

5.9+ is not to be trusted.

Matthew Tangeman wrote:5.9+ is not to be trusted.

Oh you can trust it - to kick your ass.

Hahaha, so true. The plus sign is actually a middle finger.

I always forget to do this, but when building an anchor with a cordelette, the knot gets in the way of the master point knot every time. It's easy to find the knot and clove hitch near it to one piece so the knot stays out of the way.

A great belaytionship rooted in good communication and positive energy is key.

I used to not communicate to my partner little things like feeling hungry, needing a break between climbs or possibly just wanting to enjoy the view from the top of the multi pitch a little longer. I wanted to be the coolest strongest most eager partner but my needs not being met eventually led to me being exhausted, lethargic and an unsafe follower.

After having a long talk about how we like our day to go, things have never been better.

Thanks for starting such a great thread...

It is surprisingly easy to z clip when climbing an off width crack through a roof.

On my very first trad lead, I placed a piece under the roof (my first piece in fact), extended it, proceeded up into the off width, placed another piece deep inside it. Then reached down close to my knot to find the rope and clipped. I then stepped out of the crack and tried to shift my weight when the rope came tight and tugged me off.

What happened is the extended sling on the first piece followed me into the crack. I couldn't see it and neither could my belated. So even though I grabbed close to the knot, I zclipped.

Fortunately, my belayer was awesome. From now on, I grab the knot when i go for a clip.

Lesson learned is that people like you continue to start meaningless threads over and over again just like the one you started.

JPVallone wrote:Lesson learned is that people like you continue to start meaningless threads over and over again just like the one you started.

Go take a nap.

Don't waste energy fiddling around for gear that isn't there. Often you can climb a bit higher and find an obvious piece.

cyclestupor wrote:Thanks for starting such a great thread... It is surprisingly easy to z clip when climbing an off width crack through a roof. On my very first trad lead, I placed a piece under the roof (my first piece in fact), extended it, proceeded up into the off width, placed another piece deep inside it. Then reached down close to my knot to find the rope and clipped. I then stepped out of the crack and tried to shift my weight when the rope came tight and tugged me off. What happened is the extended sling on the first piece followed me into the crack. I couldn't see it and neither could my belated. So even though I grabbed close to the knot, I zclipped. Fortunately, my belayer was awesome. From now on, I grab the knot when i go for a clip.

Let me get this straight: for your FIRST trad lead, you chose an offwidth roof??

Lesson: don't eat mexican beans with jalapeños before a big wall climb.

Dustin Stotser wrote: Go take a nap.

I'm not very tired but if you think it's best I will try.

Ted Pinson wrote: Let me get this straight: for your FIRST trad lead, you chose an offwidth roof??

Lol... Yes, but there was only about one move in the OW before moving out of it, and it was an easy route mountainproject.com/v/drago… (5.8).

The route was actually very straight forward to protect, and was an appropriate first trad lead. I think there's even an alternate start that avoids the roof, but the roof looked more fun at the time.

Moral of the story... The risk of z-clipping is higher in trad climbing than in sport. It's harder to notice if you have z-clipped, and also a higher chance of occurrence when using slings to extend.

Used a sling to go in direct on a piece when there's a lot of rope in the system and you were too pumped to pull the crux move? Great, now remember to unclip the fecking thing before you use the very last of your energy to make an attempt at the move only to be suddenly and sharply 'protected' by your last piece of gear.

I've done this a couple times and have watched others do it.

cyclestupor wrote: Lol... Yes, but there was only about one move in the OW before moving out of it, and it was an easy route mountainproject.com/v/drago… (5.8). The route was actually very straight forward to protect, and was an appropriate first trad lead. I think there's even an alternate start that avoids the roof, but the roof looked more fun at the time. Moral of the story... The risk of z-clipping is higher in trad climbing than in sport. It's harder to notice if you have z-clipped, and also a higher chance of occurrence when using slings to extend.

I use this habit to prevent z-clipping, it may be useful to you. Tie your figure 8 with a yosemite finish that wraps around the rope:

The tail of the rope is tucked away towards the climber and there is no safety knot.

When you need to clip, grab your knot then slide your hand along the rope to pull up slack. By always starting from the knot, you ensure that no piece/draw is between your hand and your end of the rope.

-I'll second the bring your headlamp. I always have one in my pack no matter what. If I'm on a multi-pitch without a pack it stays on my helmet. All you have to do is rap Devil's Tower in the dark without one, once and you won't so much as go bouldering without one.

-For a simple bail kit that goes everywhere you do take the belt off your chalkbag and replace it with a piece of tubular webbing and a quick-link.

-If you think you have to poop before starting a climb, definitely go poop before you start that climb.