Elitism on the Trail

You do realize, I hope, that since I used the term 'so-called', it means that I hold the assumption of the climber being from Colorado to be in doubt.

There's something that's been bugging me about this thread. The OP wrote:

""""""""""""""""
I overheard something today that really bothered me.

So as I'm off hiding in the woods eating lunch, I hear two parties of climbers meet on the trail. One party is obviously extremely new to wilderness climbing, the other party probably is as well, but just nabbed an ascent of a popular trade route.

In typical fashion, the party heading in is looking for route conditions. They blab on for a few minutes about conditions, and inevitably the conversation turns towards the route difficulty, experience, etc. The party heading in explains that they're from Wisconsin, and that this is the first time they've done a route this committing or large. The other party replies:

"HAHAHA. You Wisconsin fucks might as well head back home cause you have no business here."

They continue to brag of their "one day alpine ascent" until the other party I imagine just walks away.
""""""""""""""""

Seems like there's a lot of supposition on the part of someone who wasn't even part of the conversation, overhearing it from his hiding place. Is it possible that some words and sentences were missed? What about non-verbal cues like body english and facial expressions? Is it possible that it was just good-natured smack talking and not serious at all?

Marc801 wrote:There's something that's been bugging me about this thread. The OP wrote: """""""""""""""" I overheard something today that really bothered me. So as I'm off hiding in the woods eating lunch, I hear two parties of climbers meet on the trail. One party is obviously extremely new to wilderness climbing, the other party probably is as well, but just nabbed an ascent of a popular trade route. In typical fashion, the party heading in is looking for route conditions. They blab on for a few minutes about conditions, and inevitably the conversation turns towards the route difficulty, experience, etc. The party heading in explains that they're from Wisconsin, and that this is the first time they've done a route this committing or large. The other party replies: "HAHAHA. You Wisconsin fucks might as well head back home cause you have no business here." They continue to brag of their "one day alpine ascent" until the other party I imagine just walks away. """""""""""""""" Seems like there's a lot of supposition on the part of someone who wasn't even part of the conversation, overhearing it from his hiding place. Is it possible that some words and sentences were missed? What about non-verbal cues like body english and facial expressions? Is it possible that it was just good-natured smack talking and not serious at all?

Hey Marc. You are correct, Davis' post could be completely fictionalized or misrepresented for all we know, and we could be picking on something that never even happened as described. The story, however, does portray an anti-social elitist attitude that definitely does exist in the climbing world and in all human worlds in general. A lot of us really hate that attitude and sometimes feel the need to sound off against it.

So, to summarize:

William Thiry wrote: Hey Marc. You are correct, Davis' post could be completely fictionalized or misrepresented for all we know, and we could be picking on something that never even happened as described. The story, however, does portray an anti-social elitist attitude that definitely does exist in the climbing world and in all human worlds in general. A lot of us really hate that attitude and sometimes feel the need to sound off against it.

Agree about the attitude, and I'm not at all suggesting that the OP is fictionalized or misrepresented. I'm just wondering if there is more to the story, 'cause as described, it's pretty over the top.

Wow, people from Colorado sure are pretty sensitive about being stereotyped...

William Thiry wrote:You do realize, I hope, that since I used the term 'so-called', it means that I hold the assumption of the climber being from Colorado to be in doubt.

Seriously, stop trying to explaining it away. You made an assumption that may or may not have been correct. Just freaking admit it. I'll admit your original comment rubbed me the wrong way, perhaps unjustifiably, and I probably should've just stayed out of it.

But this is what you wrote:

William Thiry wrote: I'm from Wisconsin and have more long trad/alpine ascents than the vast majority of Colorado climbers/hikers I meet...You're still talking about a small percentage of Colorado climbers/hikers.. the point is that the idiotic comment uttered by the so-called Colorado climber is just that - idiotic, especially when uttered by a person who apparently just completed their very first 'alpine' ascent.

Notice how you were never ambiguous in describing the people you've met as Coloradans, but they are climbers/hikers. And you questioned the experience of the snarky party, not whether they are Coloradans. It's pretty clear to most people your usage of "so called" refers to the status of a "climber", not of a Coloradan.

Ryan M Moore wrote:Wow, people from Colorado sure are pretty sensitive about being stereotyped...

This.

Stich - no cheesehead?

reboot wrote: Seriously, stop trying to explaining it away. You made an assumption that may or may not have been correct. Just freaking admit it. I'll admit your original comment rubbed me the wrong way, perhaps unjustifiably, and I probably should've just stayed out of it. But this is what you wrote: Notice how you were never ambiguous in describing the people you've met as Coloradans, but they are climbers/hikers. And you questioned the experience of the snarky party, not whether they are Coloradans. It's pretty clear to most people your usage of "so called" refers to the status of a "climber", not of a Coloradan.

Actually I did admit that my post was a bit ambiguous and I clarified what I meant in a later post. Some people seemed to have missed that later post so I offered further clarification when they called me on it - just being neighborly. I'm a Colorado fuck now anyway (Hi Stich). Maybe I should become more sensitive. :)

So I have no issue with Coloradoans being called overly sensitive and overly arrogant fucks because they are.

I am giving you shit because you said "you're messing with the wrong guy" to reboot (could have been to anyone). I find this incredibly amusing and will look for reasons to pick on you now.

FrankPS wrote: This.

Probably because most of the stereotypes hit a little too close to home.

Stagg54 wrote: Probably because most of the stereotypes hit a little too close to home.

Yes, reminds me of the old saying, (something to the effect of) "Me thinketh he doth protest too much."

I really like "thinketh." Very Shakespearean.

DavisMeschke wrote:I was able to meet Jack Tackle a couple of months back because he was our Black Diamond rep for many years. I also got the chance to sit down and have lunch with him. I told him I admired what he did and aspired to do the same. We got to talking about his early climbing days in the Beartooths and told me that there was a period of about 3-4 years that he catalogued almost 100 winter ascents of routes there in his home range. The kicker? He hasn't reported a single one of them. He climbed these route just for the joy of climbing them; not to be the first or the fastest.

sounds like he reported them to me!

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:So I have no issue with Coloradoans being called overly sensitive and overly arrogant fucks because they are. I am giving you shit because you said "you're messing with the wrong guy" to reboot (could have been to anyone). I find this incredibly amusing and will look for reasons to pick on you now.

Glad you're amused. I enjoy a good laugh as well. reboot was really laying in on me a whole lot about what seemed to me very trivial stuff. I don't really care too much but his criticisms of me seemed a bit over the top. He was also questioning my climbing experience, of which I actually do have quite a bit. That's why I said he was messing with the wrong guy.

Doug Hemken wrote:Stich - no cheesehead?

I was 10 feet off the trail. No, I did not see faces but I heard the entire conversation, word for word. Nothing I posted was "overfictionalized".

I'm not here to argue, just to bring up an attitude I'm seeing but more of, especially in parties climbing in an alpine wilderness realm. Be it because of the recent explosion in the popularity of this kind of climbing, I don't know. Sure we all want to be perceived as experts. I brought up the Jack Tackle story to show that, sometimes, being humble is the most sane option.

I don't care if you're from Colorado, Utah, east coast, west coast.. Katmandu... It doesn't really matter. My point was to bring up an idiotic attitude, one that has no place in a wilderness setting.

Fuck wisconsin!

s.price wrote:Thiry, your original post did not say so called climber from CO. It said from CO. Only a pussy would edit their post like that. Quit being a pussy and own up to your words. Just another tool you are.

Sorry, s.price, but it seems you are the tool here since I did not edit my original post as you say.

William Thiry wrote: Sorry, s.price, but it seems you are the tool here since I did not edit my original post as you say. You're just making stuff up. Quit being a pussy???? Nice. You sound like a fine upright person we should all pay attention to.

Welcome back to kindergarden everyone!