to use a biener or not?.

What advantages are there to tieing into your rope with a figure 8 knot as opposed to tieing a figure 8 knot and connecting your harness to it with a carabiener?

Thanks for the explanation. I come from a repelling and vertical caving background with some top rope climbing mixed in so we always used locking beiners on everything. But I do see your point in the possibility of beiner failure.

willwirick wrote:Thanks for the explanation. I come from a repelling and vertical caving background with some top rope climbing mixed in so we always used locking beiners on everything. But I do see your point in the possibility of beiner failure.

Even a locking carabiner can be cross loaded, which makes it significantly weaker regardless of the gate opening or not. A screw gate could also come unlocked while climbing due to movement and rubbing the gate on rock or clothing. The gym auto-belays that powhound mentioned also using beefy steel auto-lockers, to counter these points, in addition to the reasons he listed.

Like him, I use a locker to tie in during snow climbs, where the fall forces are smaller than vertical rock.

Maybe ten years back, there was a report of a death where a boyscout was top-roping and had used a locker for the rope attachment. The locker had come open and released the rope resulting in the climber falling.

Question to your question, what is a biener??

grog m wrote:Question to your question, what is a biener??

I was wondering if anyone was going to say that! Grog came through.

Seen it done for gang-bang kid belay sessions at gym. Staff typically use two opposed lockers too keeps those little rascals safe

if you want to satisfy the safety gods and still use a bomber carabiner just pick up a steel one

A "biener" is my pittaful spelling attempt to abbreviate carabiener...

Still spelled it wrong again!

Im more confused now, what does pittaful mean?

grog m wrote:Im more confused now, what does pittaful mean?

Spelling isn't Will's strong suit. Time to lighten up on him.

grog m wrote:Im more confused now, what does pittaful mean?

ROOTHLISS REBUTTAL

FrankPS wrote: Spelling isn't Will's strong suit. Time to lighten up on him.

There wil bee no mercee!!!1!

If I ever come across a hand hold with a spelling test on it I'm screwed!...

amarius wrote:Seen it done for gang-bang kid belay sessions at gym. Staff typically use two opposed lockers too keeps those little rascals safe

I'm not sure if the words gang-bang and kid should ever be used in the same sentence.

Using the right kind of biner, it shouldn't cross load and would be pretty good for this use

Not sure if this is helpful, but at least in the guide manual for my company, we're instructed to use two lockers opposite and opposed if we ever decide to have people clip in, not tie in. A bunch of SPI's made the manual, but I don't know if this is something that the AMGA advocates. Anyhow, I do think that tying in is far safer, as it's one less point of failure, and less gear to climb up with.

powhound84 wrote: This should be enough of a reason for anyone!

Just free solo than. It requires the least amount of gear!

willwirick wrote:If I ever come across a hand hold with a spelling test on it I'm screwed!...

Maybe poker IS your game, Ike.

willwirick wrote:A "biener" is my pittaful spelling attempt to abbreviate carabiener...

Biener is clearly the correct abbreviation for carabiener. No one can argue that.

What the hell is a carabiener is the question.