rock and ice claims "EDK failure" and that EDKs need to be reinvestigated

http://www.needlesports.com/content/abseil-knots.aspx

This is definitive enough for me.

The knot in R&I article was not an EDK and the failure is no mystery.

Marc & Bryan - thanks for taking the time to reply ... I first saw a flat overhand a decade ago at Ouray ice park, where it was used almost universally ... I could see the advantage for tying with gloved hands - as long as done properly! ... & while it seems counterintuitive that a higher profile knot would snag less, the consensus seems to be that this is the case ... thanks again for enlightening me....

docsavage wrote:BITD we used grapevine to tie rope ends ... I could still tie one of these in my sleep ... can anyone tell me how it fell out of favor ... ?

What, you didn't read every line of every post in the thread? Not to worry, but have a look at the reference I posted earlier, caves.org/section/vertical/… for some insight into why the flat overhand or EDK is better

Rgold - yes, I must have missed this when you posted earlier ... thanks for posting again ... it's going to take a bit of close reading ...

Em Cos wrote: I'd be interested in your answer to this Eli - if you're going to criticize rgold for saying there is no reason to ever use a flat-8 to join rappel ropes, then you are implying that you think there IS a good reason... what is it? Because I sure can't think of one.

I can't think of a reason to use the flat fig 8 to join rap lines. I just think that absolutes have much of a place in climbing. Honestly I wasn't really be serious, just nit picking because that's we do on MP and the rest of the internet.

eli poss wrote: I can't think of a reason to use the flat fig 8 to join rap lines. I just think that absolutes have much of a place in climbing. Honestly I wasn't really be serious, just nit picking because that's we do on MP and the rest of the internet.

Do you see how it's a little silly to say that you should absolutely never have absolutes in climbing?

I can think of a few:
You should never soak your belay loop in acid.
You should never stab your partner in the eye with your nut tool. (ok I know, this may not be fatal and may not even prevent you from finishing the climb, but I think we can all agree it's just impolite.)

Or, more analogous to the current discussion: You should never use the overhand-bunny-ears shoelace knot to tie in.

It's just the wrong knot for the situation, and I'm comfortable backing up rgold that there's no reason to ever use it for joining rappel ropes. I get that you were joking, but for people who may be reading threads like this to learn from, it doesn't do any good to imply that there isn't consensus about this when in fact it seems there is.

+1

Mini thread resurrection here. R&I is trying to salvage some respectability by re-running (posting today to their FB page) an article from a year ago that found - surprise! - that the EDK is safe:

rockandice.com/climbing-new…

eli poss wrote: I can't think of a reason to use the flat fig 8 to join rap lines. I just think that absolutes have much of a place in climbing.

Could it be that you also feel that the word "don't" also should not be used? LOL, the ironing.

I'm glad I reinvestigated this thread to find my trusty EDK is safe. I vote we rename this knot the Euro Dependable Knot or the Euro Dope-as-shit Knot.

Gunkiemike wrote: LOL, the ironing.

Are irons approved to make the 8 flat?