Grigri questions???

I am one of those who has not had instant success using a grigri. Admittedly, I only have a short amount of time trying, but it was in the context of a lead clinic, with a good and patient instructor.

My main problem was feeding out slack smoothly enough to not cause the device to jam, yet fast enough to keep up with my climber. I am short and stubby, so can't yard out a big shot of rope in one nice sweep, but have to get several fast pulls in.

I also have small hands, which might be part of it. With index finger on the side, thumb on the cam, and other fingers holding the rope, for quick feed, I'm guessing I may also be getting a little twist to the works, with a not great hold on anything, device or rope.

So, I know I need to spend time on it, eventually. What are some tips that might help, and good ways to practice? There are zillions of pages on here about how to mess up. How not to would be good also. Thanks! Best, H.

I was never super happy with lead belay on grigri until i discovered what was to me a "new" method, though im sure its been around for a while.

Brake strand in right hand, grigri resting on pointer finger under the curled lip.

This brings your thumb need the camming unit, so that when you're yarding out slack, if the cam starts to engage you can hold it down for a split second while throwing out slack.

Remember you do not hover over the cam or hold it down without reason while belaying. Thats a good way to drop someone.

Why go to a new device that is problematic for you when you have been using another device successfully.

Because, assuming correct use, an assisted braking device is safer than a simple tube style device.

James Willis wrote:Because, assuming correct use, an assisted braking device is safer than a simple tube style device.

That statement heavily hinges on the first assumption. An assumption that seems to fail far too often.

Best leading belay I've used is mammut alpine smart device. Incredibly easy to run out line but still auto locking without the moving parts of a grigri. Best of both worlds.

Learn to feed 90% of the time just like an ATC, the fast feed method is not meant for full time use and raises the risk factor.

Mark lewin wrote:Best leading belay I've used is mammut alpine smart device. Incredibly easy to run out line but still auto locking without the moving parts of a grigri. Best of both worlds.

1. its not "autolocking" the device can fail to autolock if the rope is slick and thin enough (but still within the rating) ... ive had it slip on even a 10 mm slick rope

2. theres a hidden failure mode in the device that may requires you to take your climber off belay if you dont know the proper clearing procedures

the alpine smart is NOT a beginner device

;)

Jake Jones wrote:If you have a rope at home, practice. ... Practice practice practice. That's a big part of how you build any skill.

Heck, YES!
To add - try to practice feeding without using the cam override as well. Once you get the hang/coordination of it, the speed of feeding the rope is not bad at all. Combined with judicious stepping in, you might be able to feed slack without overriding the cam.

I hate grigri for when I am on lead. I do have a friend who likes to use one for everything and I just deal with it. If I am teaching a new person to lead belay I will never give them one. Top rope I don't really care one way or another, I always assume a grigri is probably safer due to the fact it has a chance of auto locking if they totally freak out, normal belay device you will deck if they freak out.

Multi pitch belaying up I normally use a guide or grigri (I got 2 of them for free so /shrug they work).

For me, at any rate, I try to stay out of the quick-feed position as much as possible.

So they better way (that ends up avoiding the cam-always-disengaged problem) is to get reasonably competent at feeding slack as if it were an atc (same hand position and everything) then get good at transitioning quickly to the quick-feed position.

Also, learn to operate it all the time in a thumbs-up position.

In my experience most people new to lead belaying with a gri-gri hate it the first few times. It feels awkward and takes a little muscle memory and some small techniques to make work smoothly. But they really are great devices with loads of uses.

Here's the tips I tend to give to new gri-gri belayers (this is assuming they already have the safety principles down):

- Keep the rope well flaked beneath you. Coils or a cluttered pile = no bueno.
- While you're still getting used to it, keep the rope stack on your right. This keeps the bend down that the rope must go through to feed into the device.
- Pull straight up when feeding rope, NOT up and toward the wall.

Old lady H wrote:So, I know I need to spend time on it, eventually.

Well, you don't actually, just to add another perspective. There's no reason you need to belay with a grigri unless you want to. The best belay device is the one you are most competent with. If the grigri doesn't do it for you, stick with an ATC. If you're interested in a device with braking assist, there are other devices you could try and see which one works the best for you.

If you do want to use a grigri, I applaud your commitment to learning correct technique and practicing until you master it.

Tim Fry wrote:Keep the rope well flaked beneath you.

+1

To further expound: Continually manage the brake end of the rope as you belay. With your non-brake hand, keep a couple of bites of kink/snag-free slack directly below the device. Do it independant of feeding rope.

Also, if you can, take a step or two toward the wall as you feed slack to supplement a short reach.

Don't get into the bad habit I see of preventing short-roping by maintaining excessive slack on the climber's side of the grigri. Too many climbers across the spectrum practice that lazy, nonchalant technique. I like an active belayer and a minimum of penalty slack!

One important variable to consider when using the grigri is rope diameter. Because of differences in friction, a smooth new 9.2mm rope will glide through when feeding slack, whereas a stiff or fuzzy old 10mm rope will cause the cam to engage much more easily and require you to hold it down with your thumb more often.

When working harder routes I prefer my partner to use an assisted braking device, especially since I am typically heavier than they are. This is not because it's safer but because it allows less slippage when falling and "bumping" up the rope after a fall.

If you are a safe belayer with an atc and understand the differences im using a grigri, go for it. Just realize your biggest challenge will be not short roping your partner, so have them start on easier routes and clip slowly. Learning to anticipate clips and be tuned in to the climber is key.

Greg D wrote:Why go to a new device that is problematic for you when you have been using another device successfully.

I agree with you, but how many beginners will have a grigri thrust in their hands this afternoon, if it's sunny? Noobs need to learn fast, both what to learn, and how to learn it. :-)

Em Cos wrote: Well, you don't actually, just to add another perspective. There's no reason you need to belay with a grigri unless you want to. The best belay device is the one you are most competent with. If the grigri doesn't do it for you, stick with an ATC. If you're interested in a device with braking assist, there are other devices you could try and see which one works the best for you. If you do want to use a grigri, I applaud your commitment to learning correct technique and practicing until you master it.

Actually, I'm hoping to run across an Alpine Up, eventually, for way down the road, as it seems, perhaps, a good choice for advanced. In the meantime, this thread will hopefully help myself and others learn the grigri. There are plenty of plus/minus/yer gonna die on here already! They are far more common than anything else, and, safe or not, you sure as heck want that competency from your belayer, or at the very least, a noob who will say "no", when someone only a bit less noob hands them their new toy.

Thanks for all the pointers, above! Anyone have some rigging ideas, for practice? Especially if you don't have someone to "man" the other end?

Anyone out there with short arms/small hands, who has had issues trying to fast feed? Did you find a way to tweak the process? (In addition to what's already been mentioned)

I like to belay with a "Click-UP" from Climbing technologies.
It's auto-locking and has no moving parts. You don't have to worry about a cam position as with the Grigri.

Just my own personal preference....

Admittedly I have been guilty of using that excuse in the past, but can people (especially women)once and for all please stop using "short" and/or "small hands" excuse for inadequacy? Plenty of small people use the Gri-Gri correctly with no issues. It's just the matter of understanding the mechanics of the device and mileage using it.

Old lady H wrote:I am one of those who has not had instant success using a grigri. Admittedly, I only have a short amount of time trying, but it was in the context of a lead clinic, with a good and patient instructor. My main problem was feeding out slack smoothly enough to not cause the device to jam, yet fast enough to keep up with my climber. I am short and stubby, so can't yard out a big shot of rope in one nice sweep, but have to get several fast pulls in. I also have small hands, which might be part of it. With index finger on the side, thumb on the cam, and other fingers holding the rope, for quick feed, I'm guessing I may also be getting a little twist to the works, with a not great hold on anything, device or rope. So, I know I need to spend time on it, eventually. What are some tips that might help, and good ways to practice? There are zillions of pages on here about how to mess up. How not to would be good also. Thanks! Best, H.

Climbing friend,

It is not really difficult at all, just taking a wee little practice to become quick and anticipating most correctly. Please yourself to read device instructions and use device according to instructions and not according to the way 5.14 climbers in Rifle or at a climbing gym near you use it (occassional or constant no real hand on brake strand, resting tired wee little hands on device indefinitely as if it is a hand resting device, etc.).

Please yourself to utilize this link, read and watch, and simply practice technique most proper. You will have little or no problem after belaying several pitches, and should be quite good and flawless after belaying 10s or 100s of pitches more. You pass slight learning curve and enjoy.

climbing.com/news/petzl-ann…

If you are perhaps too terrified to belay someone for reals, you will simply set up your belay at the end of the rope with no climber, and feed the entire rope through the grigri a few times, alternating between normal slow feed method, and fast feed, to practice the switching of the back and forth between the two. For no serious sport climber will want to climb with you using the deadly ATC, yes myah, hhhmmmmmmmnnyaahhhhhhhh!