Why hardshells ice climbing?

christoph benells wrote:does anyone know the difference between gore tex windstopper an the normal gore tex membrane? i heard once that windstopper is just gore tex's old membrane

You know what would funny? Me talking I never wear hardshell when in fact I do.

I have two jackets that are made with Gore Windstopper. The Mormot ROM and a Mammut something or other. They both are softshell but maybe not.. I thought Gore Windstopper was a kind of softshell while GoreTex was what hard shells are made of ie 3L, Pro Pac lite etc..

http://www.outdoorresearch.com/blog/gear-geek/what-is-the-difference-between-gore-tex-and-gore-windstopper

well, its more like gore tex all stretched out but yes, more or less the same,

1.4 billion pores per square inch vs. 9 billion per square inch

billion!

higher breathabilty, less waterproof than gore tex

My softshell bottoms are Ibex Schoeller/Wool and do not have side zips, and I do not see many that do. Most of my climbing the last 15-20 years involves an approach. I typically approach in one layer of Powerstretch on the bottom, and a wicking tee or if below zero, an Ibex thin wool layer on top.

The hardshell bottom lets me install the wind and water layer at the base of the climb. It's not unusual heading up to the climb to have frost on my thighs on top of the Powerstretch, and I want that moisture gone. For the same reasons I gave up installing any gaiters unless I need them, to let boot moisture escape.I also gave up tucking the shells into the gaiter as it limits high stepping for me.

I'm sure they make side zip softshells, so no need to post a link or pic. I also find that, and this is just my experience, it is easier to dodge a waterspout, or heavy drip with my upper body than my lower. In my geezerhood now I actually will sit down sometimes to belay someone up as I have a hip that troubles if I lean off the anchor too long, and hardshell works better for that too.

I always chose depending on the location and conditions of the day. Windy day, I'll probably throw the hardshell in the pack. High volume ice flow with possible exposed water section, packing the hardshell for possible spray. High temperature day in the sun or high-exertion, softshell all the way. Normal day cragging, softshell. Running water on the ice or post-holing in wet snow, hardshell bottom with softshell top. I don't think hardshells are completely dead yet, but they have come to occupy more limited occasions. That being said, my friends in Europe still like their hardshells.

TheIceManCometh wrote:yes, I prefer my softshell for ice climbing when it's a nice day, but early/late season when it's likely to be above freezing I'm more likely to grab my hardshell. Even when it's below freezing there are times you'll get lots of water. For example last season I was on Roaring Brook Falls in the Daks on New Year's Eve. It was very thin and had a huge amount of water coming down the falls (so much that it was hard to hear my partner 15' away). We got tons of spray as well. My jacket was completely coated, and I was glad to have my hardshell as my softshell would have been soaked through. Same thing late season, you might be climbing a pillar right next to an active flow or punch through the ice and get drenched. I've also climbed in hard rain. The ice was great, but the shell made a big difference.

This... That and if you ever hit an ice dam or put in a screw and hit a pocket of water, you'll be very glad you had on goretex.

Just a little clarification on Gore's Windstopper ... The membrane in Windstopper SoftShell is in-fact the same used in traditional Gore-Tex (hard-shells), however, Gore purposely does not apply the "resin" that protects the membrane from sweat, dirt, oils, etc ... This makes the membrane breath ten-fold, which basically turns it into eVent. eVent is a Gore-Tex membrane without the protective resin. Obviously, that protective resin significantly obstructs breathability, but offers bomber protection.

Depending on the weight of the stretchy soft-shell material, it may impede breathability if the material is too heavy. Now-a-days, manufacturers are going as light as possible. Black Diamond makes the Induction Shell which elevates the game a bit by seam taping a Windstopper soft-shell, making it virtually waterproof. Not many (if any at all) seam tape a Windstopper soft-shell piece because they are not meant to be waterproof.

This is how we end up with TONS and tons of gear ..... hah

AlpineIce wrote:Just a little clarification on Gore's Windstopper ... The membrane in Windstopper SoftShell is in-fact the same used in traditional Gore-Tex (hard-shells), however, Gore purposely does not apply the "resin" that protects the membrane from sweat, dirt, oils, etc ... This makes the membrane breath ten-fold, which basically turns it into eVent. eVent is a Gore-Tex membrane without the protective resin. Obviously, that protective resin significantly obstructs breathability, but offers bomber protection. Depending on the weight of the stretchy soft-shell material, it may impede breathability if the material is too heavy. Now-a-days, manufacturers are going as light as possible. Black Diamond makes the Induction Shell which elevates the game a bit by seam taping a Windstopper soft-shell, making it virtually waterproof. Not many (if any at all) seam tape a Windstopper soft-shell piece because they are not meant to be waterproof.

You do realize goretex pro lacks the "resin".