Bailing on bolt

Bryan Manning wrote:'specially since I've only been doing it for a year or so

Maybe you should hold off on the sage advice then. You know, 'specially since you've only been doing it for a year or so.

Way to have a sense of humor, you must be a blast to hang with ...mr. serious

Yeah, because sexism is hilarious.

Bryan Manning wrote:Way to have a sense of humor, you must be a blast to hang with ...mr. serious

I think you meant "Ms" Serious.

Sleyer wrote:I don't think in this situation there is a right answer but I also know I can be quite stubborn and so reading all the different opinions certainly opens up my mind.

No, there is a right answer. Since the 4th bolt is in question, either rapping or lowering off a single non-trustworthy point is just not very safe (assuming the rest of the bolts were cleaned on lower). In theory rapping places less weight on the top point than lowering, but the difference is mostly less than bodyweight, and if you imagine the bolt might fail under the difference of bodyweight, you've got more to worry about than whether to rap or lower. The best thing to do is to leave two bail biners (one on the 4th and one on the 3rd) like many has already mentioned. Since she can reach the 3rd bolt from the 4th, it's especially easy to do in this case. Now you have a redundant backup in case the top bolt fails, then you can argue with her all you want whether to lower or rap.

FrankPS wrote: I think you meant "Ms" Serious.

Frank, Frank, Frank. Because I have an aversion to sexism I must be female? Tsk tsk.

don'tchuffonme wrote: Frank, Frank, Frank. Because I have an aversion to sexism I must be female? Tsk tsk.

Not necessarily, but I think you are a woman. Am I right or am I right?

I agree with the prusik solution and would think that would be the "norm" when bailing off sketchy stuff, but lets go ahead and have some fun with this since people are already getting riled up.

What if (because for some reason you don't have a cord to make a prusik,) you take a biner (from a draw) and put a "reverse" munter in place of the prusik? Then as you get lowered the rope should slide through the munter. If the sketchy bolt blows, keeping your hand above the munter would put you in the correct braking position in a fall.

Yep, that sounds horrible.

Sleyer wrote:Her reasoning is that it is safer to rap because vibrations when lowering off the biner against rock can potentially cause the gate to open or make the rock more unstable.

This is the single most idiotic statement in the entire thread (so far).

Your partner needs to educate herself more thoroughly about fall forces, rescue techniques and how individual pieces of gear specifically work. Having blind, ignorant faith in gear can be a death sentence.

My tip: a piece of tape turns that bail biner into a locker at least.

Still doesn't help when the fourth bolt fails, though.

Was a fall taken on the fourth bolt before bailing? At least that lets you know it should hold a lower without issue.

Matt N wrote:Still doesn't help when the fourth bolt fails, though. Was a fall taken on the fourth bolt before bailing? At least that lets you know it should hold a lower without issue.

The OP wrote:

Sleyer wrote:A climber is clipped into the 4th bolt on a slightly overhanging line. The climber decided to bail because of physical tiredness and the 4th bolt (the last bolt they are clipped into) seemed sketchy in terms of rock quality.

The assessment of "sketchy rock quality" was made by someone who doesn't understand forces in climbing or fully understand how her gear works.

Marc801 wrote: The OP wrote: The assessment of "sketchy rock quality" was made by someone who doesn't understand forces in climbing or fully understand how her gear works.

Marc801.... so true.

Sketchy bolt..... hummm... I have never even seen one that wouldn't hold body weight. Even when they get pulled out of the stone with your fingers and replaced by your fingers... they will still hold.

Go and do some aid, that will teach you about just what is "sketchy".

Happy New Years.

Guy Keesee wrote:Sketchy bolt..... hummm... I have never even seen one that wouldn't hold body weight. Even when they get pulled out of the stone with your fingers and replaced by your fingers... they will still hold.

I don't think we can say they don't exist, but I do wonder about the outward force component in this accident:

rockandice.com/climbing-acc…

Marc.... that was a tragic accident. From what I understand the climb in question was sort of out of the way and not climbed all that often. The bolts on that climb do not look SKETCH in any way. Just a button head time bomb, IMHO all button heads are time bombs cause people will pound on then to much, cracking the head.
The climber was doing single point aid free soloing, I suspect he wasn't even worried and moving fast.

In the OP .... it was said something about sketchy rock making the bolt look bad.

I have seen some of the most sketchy bolts imaginable, 1/4 inchers only part way in and bent over like a nail. That one was really hard to pull and replace let me tell you.

Guy Keesee wrote: Marc801.... so true. Sketchy bolt..... hummm... I have never even seen one that wouldn't hold body weight. Even when they get pulled out of the stone with your fingers and replaced by your fingers... they will still hold. Go and do some aid, that will teach you about just what is "sketchy". Happy New Years.

Pretty clear x 4.....

Happy new year,,,,

As far as rapp vs lower...honestly, it would come down to just how overhanging the climb was. Since she clearly was dead-set (forgive the pun) on retrieving her gear, the force reduction benefits of rapping likely would have been negated by her having to bounce off the wall repeatedly trying to retrieve her gear. Doing this without a rappel backup while pumped out of her mind? Forget about it.

Bring a stick clip. Go in direct to third bolt. Have partner pass up stick clip. Use stick clip to clip 5th bolt.Jug up to 5 bolt. Go in direct and repeat until you reach the top. This is modern sport climbing you will never have to leave a bail biner again.

DRusso wrote:Bring a stick clip. Go in direct to third bolt. Have partner pass up stick clip. Use stick clip to clip 5th bolt.Jug up to 5 bolt. Go in direct and repeat until you reach the top. This is modern sport climbing you will never have to leave a bail biner again.

A) This post is like a year old
B) This doesn't work in alot of places, even if the bolt is in range of the stick clip if you are under a roof and the bolt is on the face after the roof good luck clipping it