New Yosemite Free Climbs Select Guidebook Almost Done - Call for Photos!

Erik Sloan wrote:Re: To the thread about adding a belay in the middle of a pitch. Yes I did that after talking to a lot of folks, and thinking about it for a few months. When my book comes out I know you will see many pitches with mid-pitch belays. . .. Woot Woot! Erik

easy to see why ASCA won't give you any more hardware

Let me see if I can get this straight Sloan:
1. You get booted from ASCA for adding bolts to aid climbs without FA permission.
2. You publish other people's pictures and info without their permission.
3. You add an anchor for aid climbing practice to a great free climb then say, "If you chop them I'll add them back".
4. You started this thread by attacking your competitor's work by saying "people are disappointed with their progress", and go on to name-drop like an 8th grade girl pro-climbers as your "supports".
5. "Maybe Ed can speak to why there is no website, or resource for climbers to get involved with their new guide before it comes out?" Why do you even care if they have a website?

WTF is wrong with you?

Sloan tries to obfuscate the issue.

Adding bolts midpitch to existing climbs to make them easier isn't no harm no foul, you are changing the challenge for all climbers who do the route. This is climbing ethics 101. No current Yosemite climbers but Sloan thinks this is okay. If not name names.

If you spit in the face of the ethical standards everyone else abides to don't expect your threads to be about anything else.

Eric! Please consider what most are saying here and change your ways. Sale your drills. Hand and battery-powered. And let others do the job. I too will be supporting others efforts on putting info into guidebooks. And will refrain from purchasing yours! (do to your actions). It's pretty obvious you have crossed the line. Please stay out of other areas we don't need your kind. Best of luck with your efforts. I hope you consider to do the right thing..

Erik Sloan wrote:Yo Gang, As usual, we have a very divided set here in the online climbing forum community.

Actually it's not, and by and large the vast majority of the sentiment is against your retrobolting activities.

Erik Sloan wrote:Let's try and move this discussion back toward the new Yosemite Free Climbs Select book and App coming out.

No, let's keep the focus of the conversation where it belongs, on your increasingly reprehensible actions on stone.

Erik Sloan wrote:There are always two sides to a story.

True, there's generally the facts drilled into stone and the delusional rationalizations that led to them.

Erik Sloan wrote:For sure I understand that some of my actions are controversial in the climbing community.

Clearly not or you would have already removed the BoR mid-pitch anchor and decided to change your ways. Instead you're just feeding off of all this. Pretty sad.

Erik Sloan wrote:Despite what you might think reading this thread, the most current Yosemite climbers are totally behind my book/app project

That some people are behind your guidebook efforts in no way shape or form means they support your retrobolting activities. Perhaps this conflation is the delusional part.

Erik Sloan wrote:To the average reader I'll offer this - threads like this one seem to paint this picture of me as a marauding, misguided Yosemite climber who thinks he is above the law. That's silly.

It's not, it's an accurate representation of your actions as evidenced by your own admissions and bolts in stone.

Erik Sloan wrote:To the thread about adding a belay in the middle of a pitch. Yes I did that after talking to a lot of folks, and thinking about it for a few months. When my book comes out I know you will see many pitches with mid-pitch belays - people skip them if they want, or use them if they want, no harm, no foul.

So you're saying that the BoR mid-pitch anchor isn't an anomaly and that you've been doing this fairly routinely? A fairly frightening prospect and it means folks are now going to have to climb those routes equipped to remove them and patch - great. Also, you should note that the "just don't clip them" is one of the saddest and most specious argument in the history of climbing.

Erik Sloan wrote:To suggest that someone's experience of a route is ruined by a mid-pitch belay is comical - if you talk to Alex Honnold you never hear him talking about how much the bolts on all the routes he free solos bug him.

Wait. You're attempting to use a free soloist passing bolts on an established route as a rationale for retrobolting? Seriously? Crikey dude, that's just unbelievable.

Erik Sloan wrote:So as usual there seems to be a disconnect between climbers who talk online about their ethics, and what they practice when they are out climbing.

Wait again. So you've convinced yourself that all the climbers coming down from retrobolted routes didn't mind them and in fact clipped them all. Again, delusional.

Erik Sloan wrote:So take what you read online with a grain on salt. Go climbing! I know that some of these issues are polarizing for the community. It's time we grow up and accept our differences instead of endlessly beating each other up over them.

What you write and say is what people should take with a grain of salt, but yes, it's time for you to grow up and stop retrobolting. And the difference about differences is some people's 'differences' end up as mid-pitch anchors and they should be berated over them.

Erik Sloan wrote:2016 is looking like a good year to go the Valley!

Not if the pace of your retrobolting continues.

Healyje wrote: You should note that the "just don't clip them" is one of the saddest and most specious argument in the history of climbing.

yup

Erik "Woot boy" Sloan is raping decades old classics in Yosemite. Do not enable his narcissistic behavior by giving him money. He needs professional help.

Sad that my first post here on MP has to be in defense of basic climbing ethics which Erik seems to not understand. Check the date...he's been doing this now for quite some time.
When are you going to wake up from your dream and many of our nightmares Erik...?

From ST member Greg Barnes;

Jul 29, 2005 - 09:00pm PT
Quote
"Just to make sure everyone knows the exact current relationship between the ASCA and Erik: Erik receives NO SUPPORT at all from the ASCA.

Erik has done a tremendous amount of rebolting work and was one of the founders of the ASCA.

However, his vision of bolt replacement on Yosemite wall routes differs so substantially from that of the community that the ASCA has completely withdrawn support for his work. Last fall, he gave Chris everything he had left and then I picked that up from Chris. No ASCA money goes to any supplies for Erik.

I hope that Erik finally listens and stops replacing every rivet with a big fat bolt, but on the other hand maybe he has already adjusted his methods - has anyone been up Ten Days After before and after his work who can let us know details? Has anyone sat down and discussed the particular replacement job he did on that route? In my opinion, it's premature to pronounce Ten Days After a "victim" without having that information.

In any case, I just wanted everyone to know that their donations are not going to support Erik's idea of bolt replacement on walls. I hope that Erik changes his methods so that the community can once again fully support his extensive rebolting efforts."- end quote

For Gods sake Sloan...stop the frivolous bolting frenzy!!! It's like graffiti. That shit is permanent and yosemite is the Sisteen chapel of the climbing world. You can't just bang nails into its walls of greatness to hang your crayon drawings or IKEA artwork because ten people say "Yeah bro that sounds chill duuude!" And with all due respect, Tommy and Honnold probably agree with you just so you'll leave them alone about the subject. Or they feel too awkward to say "that's lame man". How 'bout poll those who's shoulders THEY stood on to get where they are. Royal, bachar, the Masters etc. this reminds me of the conversation going on in another thread currently about putting 4-8 bolts on BOTH sides of a mega popular (yet short) crack climb in Joshua tree because it would make things easier for left handed clippers and safer for all. Fucking nauseating. This shit is gonna make bolting laws come about.

Edit: yes, john bachar deceased.

"That shit is permanent and yosemite is the Sisteen chapel of the climbing world."

Bingo. Yosemite belongs to all of us, and to all of our children and their children.

Yosemite is the birthplace of clean climbing in the United States.

A bolt or a chopped bolt, even if the hole is filled, is a scar.

climbaz.com/chouinard72/ch_…

Stop it, Sloan. Stop. It.

SRB25 wrote: this reminds me of the conversation going on in another thread currently about putting 4-8 bolts on BOTH sides of a mega popular (yet short) crack climb in Joshua tree because it would make things easier for left handed clippers and safer for all.

Good point, Double Cross probably needs a midway anchor too.

On a serious note, I don't plan on buying the select guidebook.

Haha, gnome is spamming his choss on random threads here as well?

What gives? Why aren't you dropping the word salad here like on the taco?

reboot wrote: What does the lack of interest on mp.com to this topic tells you?

I believe that this question has now been answered.
Despite the fact that the title of the thread does not reflect the subject matter.

I'm amazed anyone would actually want to support this guy. What a diq

Question from a french:

what is retrobolting:
- removing an old bolt (from the FA) and replacing by a new one.
- or adding bolts where nothing was existing before (example: close to a good crack)

In the first case, i do not see the problem.
in the second one, take care US climbers. this trend is existing in france since 20 years. THAT 'S A PITTY. It change not only the routes, it change also the climber approach and make them focused on competition. The faster the better. Parties racing in the same route. Two or three parties on the same belay (bolted , hence claimed to be secure)

The best way to destroy what we love.
US climbers, do your best to avoid this criminal trend of overbolting. For us in france, it's to late.

pierref wrote:Question from a french: what is retrobolting: - removing an old bolt (from the FA) and replacing by a new one. - or adding bolts where nothing was existing before (example: close to a good crack)

Generally the term "re-bolting" is used for the first case, and "retro-bolting" is used for the 2nd case.

Hi Gang,

A Yosemite Mountaineering School guide and friend told me a few nights ago that he had to ask Eric Gabel to walk away, to leave, because Eric was harassing him at the crag about why he didn't care about the added bolts on BOR.

Several Yosemite FA ist and local guides have told me, laughing, 'oh yeah I saw Gabel at the crag the other day, he was like 'don't share any information with Sloan!'.

These are public lands. Anyone who alters them in any way should have to register information detailing their route with the Yosemite Climbing Ranger team, and that information should be available to everyone. Period. Ed Hartouni's suggestion that FA ist have asked him to keep information about climbs secret is unacceptable in a public land environment. If you can climb the mountain without altering it in any way, then go for it. If you have to fix anchors as you go, or want to brag about it on your sponsor's website, then you should provide the public information about your route. This simple policy change will foster a much better dialogue between climbers.

I have a funny story about this. Sean Jones, longtime Yosemite local and amazing guy, put up tons of routes over the last fifteen years. When Roger and I were putting together our bigwall book, we were excited to share some of Sean's longer routes. Sean put up many IV/V routes in Ribbon Falls, Wall of Ages, Half Dome, etc. Free bigwall routes that were right along side the aid routes on those formations.

Roger and I have both been friends with Sean for many years. So we each see Sean in El Portal during the summer of 2013 and excitedly tell him about our project. Sean is super stoked, because his routes have been languishing in obscurity - he had made a topo and given it to Don Reid and Clint Cummins, but had not seen it published anywhere.

Funny thing is Sean moves a lot, has a bunch of kids, and is generally always amped on his next project, so he couldn't find the topos he had made for his routes. No biggee, he says, we'll just ask Donny and Clint to email them to you guys. In the end we exchanged about a dozen emails, both Roger and I, with Clint Cummins, Ed Hartouni, and Eric Gabel(Donny isn't online much), every time explaining that we are close friends of Sean's and that he wanted us to have the topo. Clint especially was adamant that they would not give us the topo - because our book would compete with theirs. This was in 2013! We would copy and paste Sean's FB messages to us saying how stoked he was for our book and for his routes to be in it, and Clint would write back that they had the topos now and that they didn't have to share them with anyone if they didn't want to. It was totally crazy. Eventually someone got through to Ed or Clint and we got the topo. So Ed's suggestion that he is doing things in every Yosemite Climber's best interest, or by request from the FA ist is dubious as well.

Guys, I'm not name dropping on this thread - I have the topos that these climbers made, in digital form, printed out.

My book is about done. I have a working copy that I am walking around Yosemite with, showing to climbers and getting feedback. This is the real guidebook process - working with the climbers in a particular area to get the most accurate info, not guarding information and judging every climber.

Did anyone go check out Weekend At Albert's? Super fun spot, established by a guy that is definitely not into retrobolting. The two guys that put up the routes only named two of the routes. I was like 'no names? you mean I get to make them up?', they looked at each other and were like, 'yeah'. Me and a bunch of the local climbers had so much fun coming up with the names. It's a long story, but the 'Together Forever' route is probably also called 'Weekend at Albert's', hahaha.

Thanks for all the pictures! Keep em coming!
Woot Woot!
Erik
erik@yosemitebigwall.com

So just to be super clear, for folks who might not understand this thread - the climbers(FA ists, sponsored climbers, dirtbags, posers, wannabees, etc.,) who have helped make this new Yosemite Free Climbs Select book do not all agree with me about occasional retrobolting on climbs. If fact many of them disagree with me(if you think this statement is bombastic or narcissistic, you are not being realistic about how divided our country is, meaning how every other one of your neighbors voted for the opposite presidential candidate that you did, ever other one, and yet you are all still a community/neighborhood together, no?).

As a community we are fed up with the attitudes of Yosemite guidebook authors who believe they can control information about climbs on our public lands.

Anyone with even a passing appreciation for digital modeling can see that these simple, two dimensional line drawing/maps that we are making will be replaced one day soon. Our maps don't even look like the cliffs!

Let's quit the endless bickering about ethics and celebrate that we are about to have some decent guidebook options for Yosemite! Let's motivate the future climbers to engineer new styles of guides that make our experiences even richer on the cliff, whatever that might look like.

Woot Woot!
Erik
erik@yosemitebigwall.com

Ed H., Clint C. and the others are class acts, just look at how they respond to your underhanded attacks and take the high road every time. Clint (whom I don't know personally) seems extremely generous with his info and topos and always posts in a positive and helpful manner on these forums so the fact that he won't return your calls speaks volumes.

You clearly don't give a f$%k about what other climbers think since you started the thread on BOR by saying that if anyone chops your pussification bolts you'd put them right back. Can you respond to Werner's posts? Is he not "local" enough for you to listen to?

Erik,
Can you imagine if hundreds of climbers were retro-bolting
like you have started to do. The end result is a completely
different climbing environment. Please rethink your methods.
Bob Pinckney

Posted earlier by pierref:
" take care US climbers. this trend is existing in france since 20 years. THAT 'S A PITTY. It change not only the routes, it change also the climber approach and make them focused on competition. The faster the better. Parties racing in the same route. Two or three parties on the same belay (bolted , hence claimed to be secure)

The best way to destroy what we love.
US climbers, do your best to avoid this criminal trend of overbolting. For us in france, it's to late."