Daisies, Aiders, and that Crazy Thing Called Aid Climbing
|
MP, I am starting to get into aid climbing and have a few questions about aid climbing that I have read about, want to see if the wealth of knowledge that exists on MP can help me out. |
|
Personally, I do option 2. I don't find it to be very inefficient or cause too much of a cluster once you get used to it. Option 3 is used by some very skilled aid climbers, so that is something to consider. |
|
I'm a big fan of #2 (with a fifi hook). It is a lot of stuff going on, but with a little practice it is easy to keep it straight and move very quickly. If you're doing the sequence correctly, the weight in a fall should not be getting caught by the daisy chain. The Daisy ends up serving as a hook-in point for the Fifi for static load. If the piece you're loading blows and you take a fall, the rope is going to take the fall, not the daisy. Sequence goes something like this. |
|
wsperry wrote:MP, I am starting to get into aid climbing and have a few questions about aid climbing that I have read about, want to see if the wealth of knowledge that exists on MP can help me out. So, my question is about using daisy chains in the leading sequence. I have seen it a couple of different ways and want to know what is appropriate and when. I have seen: 1.) No daisies on your aiders or gear. Seems efficient because you don't need to worry about tangles but the risk is that you can drop something. Also, If you were to fall while your aider is in the next piece, you could potentially fall below and not be able to reach it. 2.) Daisies connected to your aiders: Can't lose your aiders.But if you were to fall, I could see the forces generated from that short fall on the static daisy to be severe and have the potential to injure. 3. Daisies connected to the piece you are about to place. you can't drop your gear but again could generate a lot of force on your body. I hope that is confusing enough for all of you to follow. Advice greatly appreciated!I'm not an aid expert, but I'll try to answer based on my limited aid experience. I use method #2 almost exclusively. I agree that #1 would be very efficient for easy aid and I've certainly seen some good aid climbers advocate this. I'd be ok with this on very straight forwad C1. I still occasionally blow pieces and fumble stuff, so this is not a standard method for me just for fear of dropping things. When using #2, you should really take every measure possible to ensure you do not daisy fall to the last piece. That means bounce test the crap out of things when appropriate and as soon as you commit to a piece, get your daisy/ladder off the last one and clip the rope (if you're using it for protection). I only clip the gear straight to the daisy (before placing it) when I'm using hooks or camhooks. |
|
Little off topic but I have to give the Allfrifi Hook adjustable fifi a plug. This thing is freakin awesome and really speeds up the process. Place your piece, bounce test, fifi direct to the piece or biner, stand up repeat. The buckle action is way smoother than the Yates adjustable so it's easy to use and extend on overhead placements. |
|
25 El Cap routes, no daisies, I've taken a few falls, some quite long, and have never lost an aider. |
|
Mark Hudon wrote:25 El Cap routes, no daisies, I've take a few falls, some quite long, and have never lost an aider. I was talking with Dave Allfrey and Cheyne Lempe (two guys who are easily better, and faster than 99.9% of all aid climbers) last night about this very subject. Both worried about daisy falls and both admitted that being attached to their daisies caused clusters that required time and energy to keep straight.Mark, when you have fallen while standing on a piece with no daisy attached, where has you ladder ended up? Are you just hanging on to it with your hand while you fall? BTW, taking DA's aid clinic in a couple weeks at the fall highball in Bishop and totally psyched to learn from him! |
|
Sadly, I have to admit that I've flown 50 feet once and 30 feet more than a couple times, not including numerous smaller falls. The aiders always end up tangled up around me. |
|
I'm new to aid and pretty much learned from CMac videos - no daisies except for a few hook moves or when I think the gear is less than ideal. |
|
I almost exclusively use option number 1. Daisies slow you down drastically. I do however use a QuickDraw as a fifi hook. Using a harness with two belay loops I have a QuickDraw on one and a my solo device on the other. After placing a piece and attaching the aider, I attach the QuickDraw to the piece, (or aider carabiner if it's a nut). This ensures that you never drop anything. |
|
Mark Hudon wrote:(don't bounce cams or hooks).I would definitely bounce small cams. Big cams in solid placements dont need to be tested, but small cams are not particularly reliable, especially when placed in flares and other types of aid placements. I've had many pull on bounce tests. |
|
@20Kn, |
|
Yeah I think he meant Cam hooks.. Where you use the "ease onto it" method. |
|
Anyone use a spinner leash type setup for aid instead of a daisy as a sortof hybrid between 1 and 2? Definitely can't rest on it, but would protect against the dreaded dropsies and be less of a tangle and fiddling than daisies. |