Reverso 4 as an ascender

Whats the consensus on using a Reverso 4 or any other guide-mode/autoblocking devices as a backup ascender? Petzl's instructions for the original Reverso show that the device can be use for "Occasional Rope Climbing" (picture with climber hands off, no backup) but the newer devices don't mention if this is acceptable or not.

bmi.gv.at/cms/BMI_Alpindien…

I think that's because the newer generations of Reverso switched the anchor point and rotated it 90 degrees. So the plane of the device no longer works as an ascender. The BD guide and any other device with a similarly oriented anchor point should still work, but only if the device is properly setup in the high-friction configuration.

I would do it if I had to, but I would never plan on using it for this purpose. I have a Ropeman II that I use instead.

Nick Sweeney wrote:I would do it if I had to, but I would never plan on using it for this purpose.

End thread.

I've not tried the Reverso 4, but have done it with an ATC Guide. It worked, but was painful.

The guide works fine

The problem is with thicker ropes its harder to pull through ... But then theres a trick that helps aolve that

With the alpine smart or gigi it pulls through easily and ascending is easier than using a prussik

Basically you use it to ascent when you cant second a route free (and you arent carrying dedicated ascenders) .... Or in an emergency

;)

have done this before but it's a major pain in the ass. it works in a pinch.

I used a prussik to a leg loop to lock the brake strands anyway which made it more of a pain in the ass.

One problem is you need slack in the rope to get the device threaded. So if you're in a "I've fallen and I can't get up" situation, this isn't going to help you. You'd better know how to ascend the rope with a pair of prusik slings.

Gunkiemike wrote:One problem is you need slack in the rope to get the device threaded. So if you're in a "I've fallen and I can't get up" situation, this isn't going to help you. You'd better know how to ascend the rope with a pair of prusik slings.

all you need is a single sling with a kleimheist/hedden (see below but rather than a tibloc use a single friction knot)

the other thing is that if you only have slings having the bottom (waist) ascender with autoblock may be more secure .... its a kleimheist may slip if pressure is applied directly to the knot (top kleimheist slips and hits the lower one)

also on rappel if you need to reascend its often easier to transition to guide mode ... see below

blog.alpineinstitute.com/20…

however as i stated the rope can be a bit hard to pull back through ... but there is a trick that helps with that

;)

bearbreeder,

Thanks that's exactly what i was looking for. Petzl seems to have removed all reference to the use of the Reverso from rappel to ascend in the new literature. This seems like a streamlined system to regain a short distance especially if you have an auto-block already on the brake as it does not require additional gear.

ductapeclimber wrote:Whats the consensus on using a Reverso 4 or any other guide-mode/autoblocking devices as a backup ascender? Petzl's instructions for the original Reverso show that the device can be use for "Occasional Rope Climbing" (picture with climber hands off, no backup) but the newer devices don't mention if this is acceptable or not. bmi.gv.at/cms/BMI_Alpindien…

I have done this.
With a reverso it is fine with thin ropes, with fatter ropes (i.e. a normal single) it is almost impossible. A bit better with a BD guide. For any distance I would switch to prussiks.

However, it works nicely if you are on abseil and miss the chains by a few metres and need to get back up, as then, unless it is very steep, you only need the reverso, not a second device.

Gunkiemike wrote:One problem is you need slack in the rope to get the device threaded. So if you're in a "I've fallen and I can't get up" situation, this isn't going to help you. You'd better know how to ascend the rope with a pair of prusik slings.

I have done it as well, at the suggestion of a guide during a crevasse rescue course. The problem above is true, you need to find a way to get the initial bight of rope through the device. A prussick will help but just realize the initial setup requires this step.

The other problem I had, was that somehow the load and brake strands actually got twisted in the device, such that basically both strands were jammed (on what I'm guessing was a 10mm rope). Try undoing that mess with just your arm strength while hanging. SUCKS! Presumably it has something to do with the device being inverted compared to normal top belay guide mode, but it was really eye opening that it even happened so easily. And remember, you are pulling the rope UP through the device, so it can get tiring faster.

After that experience, I chose other first choice methods for my crevasse rescue kit, but yes it does work.

Gunkiemike wrote:One problem is you need slack in the rope to get the device threaded. So if you're in a "I've fallen and I can't get up" situation, this isn't going to help you. You'd better know how to ascend the rope with a pair of prusik slings.

I have done it as well, at the suggestion of a guide during a crevasse rescue course. The problem above is true, you need to find a way to get the initial bight of rope through the device. A prussick will help but just realize the initial setup requires this step.

The other problem I had, was that somehow the load and brake strands actually got twisted in the device, such that basically both strands were jammed (on what I'm guessing was a 10mm rope). Try undoing that mess with just your arm strength while hanging. SUCKS! Presumably it has something to do with the device being inverted compared to normal top belay guide mode, but it was really eye opening that it even happened so easily. And remember, you are pulling the rope UP through the device, so it can get tiring faster.

After that experience, I chose other first choice methods for my crevasse rescue kit, but yes it does work.

Gunkiemike wrote:One problem is you need slack in the rope to get the device threaded. So if you're in a "I've fallen and I can't get up" situation, this isn't going to help you. You'd better know how to ascend the rope with a pair of prusik slings.

The solution is as follows.
Place one long prusik on rope above you (or a short one with a long sling clipped to it). Tie an overhand knot in the prusik near the prusik knot. Stand in prusik and clip a krab from your belay loop to the overhand. Sit down. You will now have a loop of rope at your harness to install the reverso.

Pictures of the process to be found here: people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/hig…

This is a really interesting concept. Like someone said, could be nice in a pinch, for ascending a small distance.. maybe? Will read more.

Of course it works. And of course it sucks

With a gigi or an alpine smart it works like a charm ... Super easy to pull the rope

The problem with the guide and reverso is that frankly those devices are poor devices for smoothly and belaying effortlessly in autoblock if the rope is thick/fuzzy/stiff

This affects the use as an ascender, especially with dual strands

One way to help with the pull is to setup a 3/1 off the friction knot youve got at the top ... This helps somewhat with the pulling and changes the pull direction

Theres a reason why i use an alpine smart for multi, no elbow tendinitis after 15+ autoblock belays

;)