rappel failure at windy point

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-central-southern-az/tucson/rock-climber-falls-40-feet-near-tucson

FTA:
Deputy Tracy Suitt with the Pima County Sheriff's Department tells KGUN9 that a 32-year-old man fell 40 feet after a rock gave way while he was rappelling from a high rock.

does anyone know anything about this? did the anchor fail?

oops i missplelleled rappel.

Jon, here's another article....

Rock Climber Injured in Accident on Mt. Lemmon

Best wishes to the injured person.

In time, it will be good to respectfully examine the cause of the accident, and then work to limit the likelihood of this reoccurring through education.

Sincerely,
Geir

I wonder if there is a reason no information is being provided, or is this just lousy reporting?

Who fell and from which route?

The scene was in the area of Agatha Christie at the North Fin.

As usual, we all, (myself included,) want to immediately know what happened, but the information is slow to get out. We've all seen how comments based on incomplete information can snowball, often in a negative way. The initial reports contain inaccuracies and omissions, as they almost always do. I guess you could call it "lousy reporting," Brian, but pretty much par for the course!

As most of us know, or can imagine, a severe traumatic injury can be quite challenging to recover from, both physically and emotionally. In the grand scheme of things our "need" for details and "lessons to be learned" is pretty low on the priority scale... I still have to remind myself of that! (Geir's comment above is spot on.) There are folks making sure he has support right now and he will see how this climbing community can offer any assistance he may need in the future.

[As a side note, the recently sponsored "erosion control" work in the area of the Fins by local climbers was a huge benefit in the rescue effort.]

Best wishes for a speedy recovery,
Jeff

JMayhew wrote:... In the grand scheme of things our "need" for details and "lessons to be learned" is pretty low on the priority scale...

Jeff,

I'd like to respectfully disagree on one point: the priority of the lessons to be learned. I absolutely mean no disrespect to the injured, but what has happened has happened, and all we can do for them now is to pull for 'em in recovering. The lessons to be learned though are important for the future. They are very high on the priority scale indeed, IMO. Those lessons can save lives and injuries in the future. It's not just morbid curiosity to want to know what happened, how and why. Sharing that knowledge can be what keeps it from happening to someone else.

One person's tragedy is bad enough. Another one that could have been avoided had the learnings been shared is so much worse.

My other sport is whitewater kayaking. Many good things have happened in that world in the last generation. Better equipment, better technique, etc. I think though that the absolute best is the work of Charlie Walbridge, supported by American Whitewater, in compiling and making available the accident database. The learnings from that, the improvements in skills and awareness, in rescue techniques, have saved countless lives.

Climb on -Lee

Put a sock in it bro. We are not going to receive some miraculous revelation that is going to save lives. There are only a handful of things that can go wrong with a rappel. And we pretty much know them all.

Speedy recovery to the injured.

Would assuming from the sound of it that they were rappelling off a trad anchor (likely to top rope the route) and the rock the gear was behind broke.

It is a human thing to desire information sooner than later. Just avoid letting that over ride the needs of those immediately involved.

Wondering about what went wrong can sometimes be even more fruitful - so the "saving lives" argument does not hold as much water as one might think.

Bill (one for whom waiting is also hard)

Greg D wrote:Put a sock in it bro. We are not going to receive some miraculous revelation that is going to save lives. There are only a handful of things that can go wrong with a rappel. And we pretty much know them all. Speedy recovery to the injured.

Greg speaketh the truth. People always want to know what happened so they can "learn from it." Everyone, me included, has curiosity, but it's highly unlikely there was some new kind of accident. Nearly every climbing accident is something that's happened before.

Read ANAM if you want to see accident causes. They are about the same every year.

Lee,

I think my choice of words caused you, and perhaps others, to misinterpret my statement. I wholeheartedly agree with Geir saying:

Geir wrote: In time, it will be good to respectfully examine the cause of the accident, and then work to limit the likelihood of this reoccurring through education.

I work with the local SAR group and although I did not respond to this incident, I have a pretty good idea of what happened. I have not had a chance to confirm anything with the fall victim. Allowing him time to recover to the point that he may be willing to share the details of the incident was the priority I meant to convey. I certainly did not mean to minimize the importance of any lessons to be learned or to be reminded of.

Thanks for your input.
Jeff

JMayhew wrote:... Allowing him time to recover to the point that he may be willing to share the details of the incident was the priority I meant to convey. I certainly did not mean to minimize the importance of any lessons to be learned or to be reminded of... Jeff

Certainly agree. I didn't mean to imply urgency to learn the details, just importance. In good time.

To those who think it unimportant because only a few things can go wrong and they've all happened before, the same is true in whitewater, sailing, scuba, aviation, etc. In my own field, medicine, there are only a few kinds of patient safety errors, and they've all happened before too. In all those fields, compiling the data has value far beyond knowing that something happened once. It's not morbid curiosity about this or any other one event, it's about building a large enough database to do meaningful classification, determine patterns, do useful epidemiology.

Thanks for the pointer to the ANAM database. Not being in the AAC I hadn't heard of it before. It, and the tables, seem to be what I was advocating.

Lee Green wrote:In my own field, medicine, there are only a few kinds of patient safety errors, and they've all happened before too. In all those fields, compiling the data has value far beyond knowing that something happened once. It's not morbid curiosity about this or any other one event, it's about building a large enough database to do meaningful classification, determine patterns, do useful epidemiology.

In your own field, are the patient safety errors posted to a public forum for every single person who knows how to use a computer to discuss and argue over? Posting to Mountain Project is hardly building a database. I highly question the usefulness of over analyzing accidents in an online forum, where things inevitably degrades into a pissing match. I agree with FrankPS and Greg D above, if you want meaningful learning from past mistakes, go read ANAM. Here's the web site: publications.americanalpine…

I put in the search term "rappelling" and found 332 results (limit your search to "accidents" using the search option). Go read every single one of them. I can honestly say that I've read every single result with the search terms "rock climbing colorado".

aikibujin wrote: In your own field, are the patient safety errors posted to a public forum for every single person who knows how to use a computer to discuss and argue over? Posting to Mountain Project is hardly building a database. I highly question the usefulness of over analyzing accidents in an online forum, where things inevitably degrades into a pissing match...

I think you've missed the point entirely. I didn't suggest they be posted here. I don't see a lot of point in doing so either. I suggested something like AW's whitewater accident database was needed, and have since learned that it already exists.

You and several others have shot from the hip on this, been quick to jump down my throat for something I never suggested, that didn't enter my mind. That's one way to start a pissing match. If you do, as you imply, not approve of them you might wish to consider that.

ViperScale wrote:Would assuming from the sound of it that they were rappelling off a trad anchor (likely to top rope the route) and the rock the gear was behind broke.

i was mainly wondering if this is what happened or if a fixed anchor failed. it if was a gear anchor then this can be chalked off as simple user error. if it was a fixed anchor then this is worrisome. thankfully, local climbing organizations have been working diligently over the past few years to replace old bolts and anchors to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future.

Are there any updates on this incident?

The only thing I think I should say ( so people don't unnecessarily freak out about anchor bolts in that area ) is that there was no fixed anchor failure.

News reports have this accident occurring near or on Agatha Christie on the North Fin. Nearly all of the routes in this area can be toproped and have good bolted anchors (except those near Nancy's Thumb which appear to be 1/4 inch bolts). Also, nearly all are 90 feet (as is Agatha Christie) or so, depending on their position along the base slope. He fell 40 feet, which suggests he was trad climbing and one of his placed anchors failed. Also, I was by there a couple of weeks back on the way back down mountain and none of the top bolts in that area were missing. It would be interesting to know exactly what happened, but in the interim, I agree with Christian.

You may be right it's all happened before but I read accidents in North American mountaineering every year and I think it helps me to stay safe