Ice axe questions/recommendations

I'm headed up to AK for a 12 day mountaineering course in a few weeks. They're providing a standard axe (most likely a bd raven) but they recommend bringing a more technical tool with a hammer(they suggested the bd venom). I don't have any real ice/glacier experience at this point so I was looking for your guys advice before I buy anything. I intend on buying an axe with adze after the trip (probably a sum'tec or venom or similar), so my questions are more for the "more technical hammer" axe.

Does it make sense to plan on having two axes one an adze and on a hammer which work for glacier travel, self-arrest, etc. or should I go with an adze that is suited to everything and go for a more technical hammer for when I need it. I'm not really planning on doing a ton of WI in the near future, although it would be nice to have the option to hop on some easy stuff.

What do you guys use?

If I'm doing any alpine climbing I usually use Petzl Quarks. They will take you pretty much anywhere and do anything you could want. Glacier travel and self arrest? Check. WI climbing? Check. Ability to build a snow anchor/deadman? Check. Also, they are modular, in that the hammer/adze/pick attachments can be removed/replaced at will.

Granted, they are a bit shorter than a standard Piolet like the Raven/Venom/Sum'tec (50cm vs 55-65 cm), but I find the adaptability more than makes up for it.

Ryan M Moore wrote:Does it make sense to plan on having two axes one an adze and on a hammer which work for glacier travel, self-arrest, etc. or should I go with an adze that is suited to everything and go for a more technical hammer for when I need it. I'm not really planning on doing a ton of WI in the near future, although it would be nice to have the option to hop on some easy stuff. What do you guys use?

For me, my tool(s) for glacier travel and climbing water ice are kinda two different things.

I want a tool that self arrests well. So, whether that's an axe or a hammer will be personal preference, but, it won't be any tool that I'd currently have for ice climbing.

So, straight shaft and classic pick with negative pick clearance as my primary glacier travel tool. A second tool could be a more technical tool and typically that'd be a hammer. Although, some folks prefer to have a hammer as their primary tool...thought being it might be more commonly used to pound in a picket or a pin on some routes than to use the adze to chop ice/snow.

I have a pair of Venoms that work. Its a nice set, and, might be a fair bit undergunned for most (or any) hard ice climbing. But, for low angle ice, soft ice, neve snow conditions, they work well. Top bend is subtle enough. Pick configuration nice for self arrest (classic pick option).

Its an interesting thing, though, the tool selection for glacier travel. I think most climbers won't carry a tool specifically for glacier travel if they're doing fairly technical climbing and have along a pair of technical tools. So, its a compromise in equipment sometimes. For me, I've tossed in a light ax for self arrest/glacier travel on trips.

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Do the shortest version of either

Thanks for the advice. So compiling all your responses into one... Does anybody have a reason why buying a venom/air tech/ sum'tec with an adze as a primary and a petzl quark with a hammer as a secondary would be a bad idea?

Ryan M Moore wrote:Thanks for the advice. So compiling all your responses into one... Does anybody have a reason why buying a venom/air tech/ sum'tec with an adze as a primary and a petzl quark with a hammer as a secondary would be a bad idea?

That would be just fine.

It really depends on what it is you want to climb. With a traditional Raven piolet, glacier travel is more comfortable. Adding a Venom axe will enable you to climb easy moderate ice.
Combining a Venom and a technical ice tool will enable you to climb hard moderate ice and steep snow travel. It won't be very comfortable on easy glacier travel.

You may end up with 3 axes. I would buy the Venom with a hammer for placing pins.

Venom would be fine for easy glacier travel. Probably one of the most comfortable tools (head in hand). The pick that comes with the adze is fantastic for arresting, it's not bent TOO much to make it really suffer that much as a trad mountaineering axe. I'd never mess with a standard straight axe now that I know better.

The picks are interchangeable although you may not have a choice of pick it comes with OEM. The Venom is perfectly capable of self arrest but my point was that the shortness relative to a long axe will make it less comfortable on easy slopes. If you don't plan on caning then it's fine.

Ryan M Moore wrote:Thanks for the advice. So compiling all your responses into one... Does anybody have a reason why buying a venom/air tech/ sum'tec with an adze as a primary and a petzl quark with a hammer as a secondary would be a bad idea?

I like having a longer Raven for normal stuff (a long Venom with an adze would work for this), and two matching technical tools for ice. With two of the same species of tool, they both swing the same, so you won't feel weird swapping them when climbing leashless. And a long, traditional piolet is more comfortable for walking on steep snow, better at self-arrest, and useful for balance when boot-skiing.

He mentioned the adze version, which comes with the less aggressive pick.

Also, leaning on your axe on gentle slopes is played out. Way too many benefits to the shorter, lighter, easier to wield ice axe. Way too many. Long axe is 1993 style.

If you really need to lean on something, many mountaineers will use one lightweight trekking pole, axe in other hand, when it's not steep. Or just don't lean at all.

To each his own. I've never seen the point in carrying ski poles unless I'm skiing, but some people swear by them.

seano wrote:To each his own. I've never seen the point in carrying ski poles unless I'm skiing, but some people swear by them.

I'm not a big fan either, unless I'm using it for part of the shelter, or whatever. I know people do this, but I'd prefer to just use my actual balance for balance, or something like this that weighs about 6 ounces.

helinox.com.au/tl-series-wa…

helps the knees a bit on the long steep walkout as well, if that's a concern, use a a corner anchor on the tent in snow, etc etc.

Thanks for all the input, definitely helped.

Adam Burch wrote:H Also, leaning on your axe on gentle slopes is played out. Way too many benefits to the shorter, lighter, easier to wield ice axe. Way too many. Long axe is 1993 style.

If I were doing Denali's West Buttress or the dog routes on Rainier, I'd take a longer axe, that's how I chill from 93 til... on tons of moderate slopes where the main point of the axe is as a tool in crevasse fall situations.

For all-aroundness, a bent-head piolet like the Venom in 57 cm length paired with a pair of modern modular tools like (Quarks, Cobras, the Grivel one can't remember the name) will get you up anything you'd ever want. A piolet paired with a short Venom hammer will leave you wanting if you go the direction of ice climbing.

jaredj wrote: If I were doing Denali's West Buttress or the dog routes on Rainier, I'd take a longer axe, that's how I chill from 93 til... on tons of moderate slopes where the main point of the axe is as a tool in crevasse fall situations. For all-aroundness, a bent-head piolet like the Venom in 57 cm length paired with a pair of modern modular tools like (Quarks, Cobras, the Grivel one can't remember the name) will get you up anything you'd ever want. A piolet paired with a short Venom hammer will leave you wanting if you go the direction of ice climbing.

That's easy - just don't do dog routes. SOLVED! ;)

I've owned venoms (me gusta), and I currently have some old grivel matrix lights for moderate ice/alpine. Also have the shorty airtech evo piolet. On liberty ridge, one of those matrix lights and one pole did the trick for the glaciers and the descent, and when it was steep, the two matrix lights were perfect. They climb better than the venom, way better steel, but don't arrest as well or carry as comfortably by the head. compromise yup yup