Gunks AAC campground update?

I stayed at so hi campground last year. Was actually very nice and not crowed at all. Bit of a drive though

MojoMonkey wrote:And I don't think the lack of a few campsites will be the key to reducing crowding at the Gunks. When they cut the MUA in half it didn't cut down on campers - it just meant folks trying to be legal in a spot were unable to find parking when they got back after climbing or dinner from the cars of folks camping in non-approved sites or sleeping in their car.

Exactly -- If higher gas prices and day pass fees haven't hindered the hoards, trying to squeeze people out of overnight camping isn't going to do it either. If anything, it just decreases the odds some diehard (I'll say it - "real") climbers will be visiting, and makes more room for gumbies and guides. I don't think the preserve cares who climbs or in what condition the climbing community is, as long as they pay the fee and don't poop in the middle of the carriage road. Let 'em eat cake.

Sadly, the Mohonk Preserve these days is about monopolizing and monetizing access to the ridge.

Personally I think the towns of Rochester, Marbletown, New Paltz, and Gardiner, should take the whole thing by eminent domain, and give it to the state. Make it a southern extension of Catskill State Park where climbing is free, not because the cost to access the preserve is unaffordable, but because monetizing access to such a degree has changed the spirit of the place.

Mohonk seems to be about the egos of the executive staff and the board of directors. It seems to be about control; who can do what, where, and when. And above all it seems to be about money.

Matt Davis wrote:Sadly, the Mohonk Preserve these days is about monopolizing and monetizing access to the ridge. Personally I think the towns of Rochester, Marbletown, New Paltz, and Gardiner, should take the whole thing by eminent domain, and give it to the state. Make it a southern extension of Catskill State Park where climbing is free, not because the cost to access the preserve is unaffordable, but because monetizing access to such a degree has changed the spirit of the place. Mohonk seems to be about the egos of the executive staff and the board of directors. It seems to be about control; who can do what, where, and when. And above all it seems to be about money.

Keeping in mind that the Mohonk Trust - predecessor organization to the Preserve - was collecting fees ever since the 60's. None of the other stuff mentioned is new either....I recall first hearing these same arguments in the 70's.

Marc801 wrote: Keeping in mind that the Mohonk Trust - predecessor organization to the Preserve - was collecting fees ever since the 60's. None of the other stuff mentioned is new either....I recall first hearing these same arguments in the 70's.

I guess your point is they have a long tradition of issues (?).

Kevin Heckeler wrote: I guess your point is they have a long tradition of issues (?).

I don't see it that way at all. If it weren't for the Trust, there likely would be condos, atop and below the Trapps, trophy homes, much private land, and little or no legal climbing on what are now Preserve lands.

The new AAC campground and the former MUA are/were not on Preserve lands. The only camping was camp Slime. There was talk as far back as the 80's of refurbing the land where the old AMC cabin was located for camping and closing Slime.

Where was the AMC cabin?

It is the now-restored Van Leuven Cabin. There is a short trail to it from the West Trapps Lot.

Marc801 wrote: I don't see it that way at all. If it weren't for the Trust, there likely would be condos, atop and below the Trapps, trophy homes, much private land, and little or no legal climbing on what are now Preserve lands. The new AAC campground and the former MUA are/were not on Preserve lands. The only camping was camp Slime. There was talk as far back as the 80's of refurbing the land where the old AMC cabin was located for camping and closing Slime.

I'm aware of the history. It doesn't mean everyone thinks/feels it's as rosy as you paint. And no, we're not going to get into this again. [this topic has been thoroughly batted around in the past, go figure right? And to think you're the first person in the history of MP to come to the preserve's rescue, or this the first criticism of the preserve's fees!]

If people don't like the constant griping about the situation, then fix the situation. The fact these gripes have existed for so long indicates a greater underlying problem. The climbers have changed, but the situation hasn't. The only common denominator is... shoot, almost had it. Someone help me.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: I'm aware of the history. It doesn't mean everyone thinks/feels it's as rosy as you paint. And no, we're not going to get into this again. [this topic has been thoroughly batted around in the past, go figure right? And to think you're the first person in the history of MP to come to the preserve's rescue, or this the first criticism of the preserve's fees!] If people don't like the constant griping about the situation, then fix the situation. The fact these gripes have existed for so long indicates a greater underlying problem. The climbers have changed, but the situation hasn't. The only common denominator is... shoot, almost had it. Someone help me.

The only common denominator is... People like to whine

People also like to minimize other people's legitimate complaints as whining, since it clashes with their opinion about a subject.

Legitimate complaints mentioned on inappropriate or irrelevant platforms are most certainly forms of whining. Find the proper outlet for said complaints.

I agree with beensandbagged. Everyone is a critic

Hi BigA, I knew you weren't far behind.

The tradition I see is people who feel they can endlessly pontificate about things they know NOTHING about.

So about that camground...

lucander wrote:So about that cam[p]ground...

But don't you love the endless round and round of butt hurt whenever the preserve is mentioned?

Feel free to spew the pro preserve line un-rebuffed at:

gunks.com/ubbthreads7/ubbth…

Hey, wouldn't you know it - Seth G is active on there! No way!

Who is getting butthurt? People are just tired of seeing the same rhetoric, from both sides. And everytime a new Gunks thread is mentioned, it derails into the same repeated drivel.

That said, thank you Kevin for steering us to the proper channels.

BigA wrote:...just tired of seeing the same rhetoric, from both sides. And everytime a new Gunks thread is mentioned, it derails into the same repeated drivel.

Yup, I'm as tired as the next person. That's how topics are discussed. Won't be the last of such threads. Certainly no absence of 'hot topics' across numerous climbing areas, across numerous disciplines. Ethics, gear, sport v trad, etc etc etc. Welcome to the internets.

What you don't see ME doing is telling people to shut up, or that their opinion doesn't matter.

This lazy equivalence of "both sides" is ridiculous. As I see it there is one person who generally turns every single Gunks thread into a complaint about the fees. I don't discuss the Gunks here much because it has been made impossible by one person who ruins every thread. I have no hope of getting through to him, since he appears to believe (in classic troll fashion) that he speaks for a vast silent majority and attacks anyone who disagrees with him as biased.

I care a great deal about climbing and the Gunks but I view talking about it here on the mountain project forum to be nearly pointless.

Whoa! Who told you to "shut up"? That seems rude!

If you're so tired of the same old, why are you one of the main contributors to thread derailments?