Edelrid MegaJul Belay Device

I'm not liking the underhand brake strand grip they show in the BRD manual.
metoliusclimbing.com/pdf/BR…

I wonder if metolius will make a plaquette/guide mode version?

Ray Pinpillage wrote: I think discounting the Alpine-Up's complexity shows a great deal of bias or lack of use in anything but casual environments.

And I think insisting on its complexity shows a great deal of bias or lack of use in anything but casual environments.

rgold wrote: And I think insisting on its complexity shows a great deal of bias or lack of use in anything but casual environments.

Here's is the manufacturer's video, anyone who is interested is free to watch:

youtube.com/watch?v=EogWFgH…

The Alpine-Up is not panacea, nor is the Smart/MegaJul. All have trade-offs. The small amount of people I know who have experience with the Alpine-Up all commented on how much time they spent fiddling with the device, myself included. If that is not an issue for you, that's great but it bears mentioning. Fiddly-bullshit has a way of magnifying in stressful situations, which in climbing often means significant safety risks.

Twin/Half 7.8mm ropes, each strand loaded with half the hand force.
All devices rated for these ropes.

Incidentally don´t imagine you can actually grip these ropes with 24kg hand force, if you can get half your doing well.

i find it absolutely interesting that the BRD and megajul perform much worse relative to the others with ~8mm twin ropes vs. a single ~9mm

hmmmmmmm

bearbreeder wrote:i find it absolutely interesting that the BRD and megajul perform much worse relative to the others with ~8mm twin ropes vs. a single ~9mm hmmmmmmm

The BRD let itself down badly there for sure, might be taking the grinder to it one day to jerk it up a bit!
I´ll run the 8.5 halves I´ve got through tomorrow but doubt much is going to change.
The Smart redeemed its previous lacklustre performance by being overall one of best performers in the force range we can get with these ropes.
Edit to add:- The MegaJul didn´t in fact stand a chance, IF you build a belay plate that depends on pinching the rope between the karabiner and the body you shouldn´t leave a gap which is 6mm high and with an area greater than the rope it´s expected to hold. With one side loaded I can slide a 6mm dia bar through the hole so pinching isn´t going to happen. I suspect this was why the BRD didn´t make it either but didn´t measure the area of the aperture, I´ll do this tomorrow as it´s forecast to rain.

Maybe I missed it but are you using the small size Alpine Smart with the 7.8mm twins and large size Alpine Smart with the 9mm single?

Ray Pinpillage wrote:Maybe I missed it but are you using the small size Alpine Smart with the 7.8mm twins and large size Alpine Smart with the 9mm single?

No, the smaller Smart for all the tests, that´s why it wasn´t included in the 10mm rope test as the maximum is 9.5. The 9mm rope was tested singly because it´s around a fairly common thin single rope size and I´ve other data on the behavior of single to double strand ropes in this diameter to compare with. For the bigger Smart performance Bearbreeder has the experience and what he says bears out what other users I know have found.

Jim Titt wrote: No, the smaller Smart for all the tests, that´s why it wasn´t included in the 10mm rope test as the maximum is 9.5. The 9mm rope was tested singly because it´s around a fairly common thin single rope size and I´ve other data on the behavior of single to double strand ropes in this diameter to compare with. For the bigger Smart performance Bearbreeder has the experience and what he says bears out what other users I know have found.

You might want to note which Smart you're using because the larger size is also stated to work with a 9mm ropes but handles small cords differently. Smaller cords slip more in the larger device.

Well it´s partly because this is an ongoing conversation and I´ve previously said that 9,5´s were the biggest rope the Samrt would take and that it was rated for the 7.8´s so I thought it was reasonably clear it could only be the smaller version. It´s Mammut´s fault for calling both plates the same thing!

And then 8.5mm half ropes.

Curious that the 7.8´s worked better in the ATC and Reverso so had a closer look, the 7.8´s a much newer and softer and appear to go down into the vee slots better whereas the 8.5 is a fairly old-school and extremely robust object, it´s hardness seems to prevent jamming down into the Vee as well.

And why is any of this interesting? Well if you are using half ropes you often get in the situation where only one strand is actually going to be loaded in a fall and the original objective was to find out how well we can grip two strands when only one is loaded. The Italian Alpine Club and hazarded an opinion of about 40% reduction in braking force but didn´t really test it as such, just noted it when doing some other testing.
I went a bit further and tried to see what I could hold leaving slack in one strand and then as it slid through seeing what the two-strand force was. The reason for purchasing the Smart was in the hope it would improve matters!
The test is of nescessity not very accurate, there are limits to how much rope sliding through my hand I enjoy. That´s also why the BRD and Reverso³ don´t get included.

The 7.8 results are particularly poor, partly because the ropes are reasonably new and still smeared with some slippery stuff in case I was ever stupid enough to go climbing in the wet and cold and partly because I have strong but large hands, someone smaller might be able to grip the things better.

Thanks for posting this jim

Ive always found that stiff ropes feed much better through an atc guide than soft supple one, the stiffness keeps the it from locking up as fast

Conversely a stiff rope locks up very quickly in a smart, and is a biatch to feed

Some of my ropes i start off with the smart and after a few hundred pitches of use, i use an atc as it gets stiffer, thicker and fuzzy like a bear

What concerns me is not the devices themselves ... The will all do their jobs if you have a solid brake hand

But rather the promotion of them as "autolocking" by the climbing media and folks who recommend em as such

Heres an example

outdoorgearlab.com/Belay-De…

Use the smart enough on different ropes and situations and one figures out that while it may lock sometimes, this is depends on the situation

Over and over again i see newer climbers use such devices (and grigris) as substitute for proper braking control

And even experienced climbers get lazy when using assisted locking devices

I should probably write something up on the failure modes of the smart and the habits of the folks who use em

;)

bearbreeder wrote: I should probably write something up on the failure modes of the smart and the habits of the folks who use em ;)

That would be a useful public service BB, I hope you do it.

What differences had you guys found between a Reverso 3 and 4 models?

I've seen the new Jul,,,people seem to like it....haven't tried it myself. The alpine version of the Smart is nice too, pretty good for some thinner ropes. Also I have an old (4 years?) MadRock device that has a removable piece that allows it to handle fatter ropes, or when inserted does a great job with controlling even a 9.1 rope I just got. So many choices out there,,,I use 'em all for different ropes in use.

Jim,
The Mega Jul can be used in either of 2 direcions - as an auto locker or like an ATC. Which way was it used in the test? It's also VERY dependent on the type of biner.

It is obvious from Jim's description, comments, and graphs that the Jul was used in it's "autolocking" (ha!) orientation.

On the issue of poor performance with 7.8's, I think this highlights the comments I've been making for a long time now (based, however, not on real testing but just personal experience in the field) that manufacturers give overly optimistic usable ranges for their devices and we'd all be well-advised to stick to something like the middle third of those ranges. The result is that if you use ropes of significantly varying diameters, you really shouldn't be trying to use a single device for all of them.

TL;DR

Does it hold falls? Is it easy to use?

Syd wrote:Jim, The Mega Jul can be used in either of 2 direcions - as an auto locker or like an ATC. Which way was it used in the test? It's also VERY dependent on the type of biner.

This isn´t correct. You can only belay with the high break suspension, not without. You can though rappell with the MegaJul either with or without Autolock, depending on the orientation of the device.

Syd wrote:Jim, The Mega Jul can be used in either of 2 direcions - as an auto locker or like an ATC. Which way was it used in the test? It's also VERY dependent on the type of biner.

Well it CAN be used in the non-not-very-autolocking mode though the manufacturers don´t state this. In fact I did inadvertently test this by installing it the wrong way round. It´s has extremely poor braking power!
The karabiner used meets the manufacturers specifications. No karabiner on the market will make up for the inherent weakness of the design, the gap where the rope "pinches" is still enormous and the small-rope performance remains miserable.