Will I be able to fit all of this stuff in an Osprey Variant 52 pack?

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/05/climbing-packs-part-4.html?m=1

Check out how much these guys are fitting in 30-40 liter packs

Febs wrote: Really you would be able to fit everything - including tent, bag, mattress, food, rope, crampons, everything - in a 38L sack? It looks impossible to me, but perhaps I have to relearn how to pack properly.

Are you soloing the route?

Febs wrote: Really you would be able to fit everything - including tent, bag, mattress, food, rope, crampons, everything - in a 38L sack? It looks impossible to me, but perhaps I have to relearn how to pack properly.

More likely, you aren't too familiar with the Mont Blanc massif and how the easier routes there are generally attempted.

For MB you'd looking at a single axe, half rope between the pair/team, rack for glacier travel only, crampons and harness. However they are all worn or in use throughout so none of that needs to be carried except on the cable car.

Many people will use huts or, as we did, use a bivvy bag higher on the route rather than a tent. Although if you have a single skin or ultra-light tent that'd very probably be lighter than two bivvy bags anyway. Unless you are making a true winter ascent rather than just one early season, a sub-1kg down bag and a short mat (plus your sac & down jacket) would be fairly standard.

Given all that, as others have said, a 35L-40L pack with a floating lid is pretty standard for the Alps.

The 3 monts route is also done in a day from the cosmique hut thus being able to use a 35 litter pack but if he is going up the aiguille du gouter and the bosses ridge route without staying in huts it will require carrying more gear than even if he is camping next to cosmique hut and going up and over as he would prob camp at (correct me if I am wrong its been a while) tete rousse or the other hut below valot and going up and back down the same way in which case the cilogear 60 would be perfect

The Ex-Engineer wrote: More likely, you aren't too familiar with the Mont Blanc massif and how the easier routes there are generally attempted. For MB you'd looking at a single axe, half rope between the pair/team, rack for glacier travel only, crampons and harness. However they are all worn or in use throughout so none of that needs to be carried except on the cable car. Many people will use huts or, as we did, use a bivvy bag higher on the route rather than a tent. Although if you have a single skin or ultra-light tent that'd very probably be lighter than two bivvy bags anyway. Unless you are making a true winter ascent rather than just one early season, a sub-1kg down bag and a short mat (plus your sac & down jacket) would be fairly standard. Given all that, as others have said, a 35L-40L pack with a floating lid is pretty standard for the Alps.

Thanks for your comments.
Actually, I want to climb it Alpine Style. That means, NO cable car. That means, that I have to carry all that stuff up there and unless I want to hike from Chamonix with my harness on and my one Ice Axe in my hand (and that *could* indeed be a possibility) I have to stuff those things in the pack.
My tent weights two kilos. Probably two bivy bags could save some weight.

I stumbled across this Steve House video (when I was actually searching for infos about his training book, I found this one about packing a backpack:
youtube.com/watch?v=n1tJ3Om… )

He fits everything in a 45L pack.

The problem is, that it fits everything BUT food and water.
How am I supposed to climb Mont Blanc alpine style without eating and drinking? :)

(that would be quite though even with the cable car and a night at the hut).

(btw I thought about sleeping nearby Grand Mulets hut).

its a long day from grands mulet hut up to mont blanc and back
sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you want to do
at the risk of sounding like a broken record i would still recommend the cilogear packs
once at the hut set up camp and then climb up and back with your pack collapsed to 30 litters and you are laughing
i descended that route last time i climbed mt blanc its a lot of vertical
have fun

"Mont Blanc French normal route"

Use the huts and cut out half the crap you'd carry and enjoy yourself. 35 or 40 liter pack is all that you require. Used a stripped Khamski 38 this spring as did a buddy earlier on the Mulas. Gouter is a day longer but two nice huts on it. Much as I like CCW and detest the build quality of the Cilo. Get a real ski pack like the Khamski or something similar built specifically for a trip like that. Khamski was way more pack than was needed with only one night in the hut if you have skis. Plenty big enough for the Gouter as well. Most will use less.

I would try to go in the 40-45 L range. I love my BD Axis 40. My sleeping bag barely compresses it works fine. If I'm taking a rope for the climb I attach my tent to the outside straps it fits in great, easy to throw inside when we rope up and the crampons on the outside work well for the approach. Get your layering system down and it will save a lot of room. If you have to wear your harness on the approach its not that bad, attach your helmet to the outside as well on the approach, could even out your rack on the outside for the approach Climbed with donini once in the Tetons and he wore his harness for our 3 hour approach and he's 70. Go light and have more fun and a better chance at the summit.

I use a 33L Axis pack so if you can't do it with a 52L pack either I take way too little or you take way too much. Some of it depends on what kind of rack and who you can split what with. Usually winter stuff I have a pretty small rack.

I do have to put the rope, helmet, crampons, tools on the outside. I usually strap the food under the helmet. Everything is held on well. Use compression sacks, go with smaller items. Lighter rope, down jacket and sleeping bag. Those are the sorts of things that make that possible.

I don't think I'll ever get anything bigger than 45L ever again. Maybe for an expedition. Hell, even then just throw it in the sled you're already bringing.

Dane wrote:Use the huts

Man, I hate 'em.

To me, they ruined the Alps. How pure and clean they would be without those buildings, gathering people that shits altogether in the same place (a glacier, for the highest ones), polluting the environment, stinking, expensive, crowded.

For me, it's with a tent or it's just not going there. I'd rather happily NOT doing a climb if I'm not able to do it alpine style rather than doing it with the help of any hut, which I despise.

So: I really need a 60+L pack it seems :).

considering that the guy from "Cold, cold world" didn't replied, I'll look for sure at the Cilogear. Mygod, they make one that costs 1500USD. :)

Febs wrote:How am I supposed to climb Mont Blanc alpine style without eating and drinking?

A hip flask of single malt should cover the nutrition and hydration requirements for any alpinist, no?

jmeizis wrote: Everything is held on well. Use compression sacks, go with smaller items. Lighter rope, down jacket and sleeping bag. Those are the sorts of things that make that possible.

No pad? No bivy bag? You sleep on the glacier on the sleeping bag alone? Man, you're strong as fu*k, I'd die.

Use the huts

52L will be too small for you. Better look at 75L+ packs.

Also, I appreciate wanting to get the right pack. What about that tent? Have you used that on other trips on glaciers in the Alps? Looks kinda cheapy and hard to set up. I'm a tent snob so maybe it's perfectly fine - looks like a wannabe Hilleberg without any of the actual redeeming aspects of a Hilleberg, but I confess the brand isn't popular in the states so maybe I am wrong. Probably more of a potential show-stopper than a pack that isn't ideal.

Febs wrote: No pad? No bivy bag? You sleep on the glacier on the sleeping bag alone? Man, you're strong as fu*k, I'd die.

Haha, no I carry a 3 inch inflatablepad and bivy sack (I hate bivy sacks!). I wish I were that hard. But with partners they can take half the stuff. I guess if I were rope soloing multiday routes I might need a bigger pack but if you're splitting gear there's not really that much for all except really technical routes that require a lot of gear.

jmeizis wrote: Haha, no I carry a 3 inch inflatablepad and bivy sack (I hate bivy sacks!). I wish I were that hard. But with partners they can take half the stuff. I guess if I were rope soloing multiday routes I might need a bigger pack but if you're splitting gear there's not really that much for all except really technical routes that require a lot of gear.

How do you split a bivy bag and the inflatable pad?
I guess you can split a tent (you do) but I also guess that each team member should quite need his/her own pad and bivy... so I still can't see a way around loading your pack with it...

Have you considered going to a store with your things and seeing just how much stuff you can fit in/on a pack of any given size?

Alexander Blum wrote:Have you considered going to a store with your things and seeing just how much stuff you can fit in/on a pack of any given size?

I have. The problem with this is not really that it would not be very practical (I would also need to carry food ;) or, ok, something which I expect to be as big ) but that it'd allow me only to measure if my stuff can go into the inner space of the pack. Thus excluding any facility for hanging/securing stuff outside of it (crampon pocket, rope strap, helmet net, stuff like that).

At the moment I'm mostly oriented towards cilogear stuff. Thanks :)

Febs wrote: How do you split a bivy bag and the inflatable pad? I guess you can split a tent (you do) but I also guess that each team member should quite need his/her own pad and bivy... so I still can't see a way around loading your pack with it...

You don't, I was more thinking of things like the rack and rope, stove and fuel/food, tent and poles.

In my personal winter overnight pack I have:
-full pad
-down sleeping bag
-puffy
-rack or avy equipment, depending on skiing or alpine objective
-harness
-extra gloves, hat, headlamp, socks, other small items get stuffed where they fit or zipped in the top pouch.
-tent body or poles. Something like Direkt2 or BD Firstlight.
-If the rack is small food or stove and cook kit may go in the pack.

On the outside of the pack I strap:
-Crampons
-Ice Tools/Axe/skis
-Rope (There are four straps and a helmet carrier to hold it on nice and clean)
-Helmet (Axis 33 has a nice carrier that carries it on top)
-A lot of things can be stuffed under the helmet. Food and cooking stuff are usual suspects.

I have the most trouble with skimo because the rope and skis don't strap on together well. The other thing are long trips with lots of food or anything with a really substantial rack. For now I've been carrying a shot pack on the front. Figure if I have to start actually climbing several things are going to come out or off the pack and I can put that stuff in the pack.

I'm leaving on Wednesday for a week of snow slogging and skimo in the San Juans, I'll take a picture because people probably think I'm full of it. I am planning on grabbing the 45L version just because it will be easier to pack and most of the stuff will fit inside. I've found I really like BD packs. They're burly and innovative, but a little heavy.