Eldo | Wind Tower rappel - hardware upgrade

So what have you done for me lately, ACE?

At the rap off the NW corner of the Wind Tower, ACE replaced a short, rusty Rawl and Metolius Fat hanger with a SS 1/2" x 4.5" Rawl and double ring hanger.

www.aceeldo.org

youtube.com/watch?v=wNCkxLL…;feature=youtu.be

I've rapped from there before - nice work

Here's a question - is there an advantage to making a new hole as opposed to cleaning/prepping the old one and re-using it?

Thanks for your community work Greg and ACE!

Wally

Matt Pierce wrote:I've rapped from there before - nice work Here's a question - is there an advantage to making a new hole as opposed to cleaning/prepping the old one and re-using it?

The old hole was 3/8" x 2.5" deep, and the new hole is 1/2" x 5" deep - so we did more than clean and prep it.

The issue is that there is only so much surface area available for new holes.

The Holy Grail of bolt replacement is a way to re-use the same hole through multiple generations of bolts. Glue-ins last the longest, but most can't be removed. Some can but it's no guarantee. Sleeve bolts are sometimes finicky on installation and fail to stay tight. Wedge bolts usually don't come out without breaking. 1/2" Stainless Rawl bolts are relatively easy to remove.

Nice job, Gregger Man!

Appreciate re-using the same hole. Also appreciate the video showing the tools required to do the job right.

Went back with painted hardware and added black paint to the in situ stainless.

Sweet! Thank you so much. I think those that replace hardware are unsung heroes.

I am curious though, what is the thought behind painting/camouflaging them? Just aesthetics or to inhibit rust?

Tony T. wrote:Sweet! Thank you so much. I think those that replace hardware are unsung heroes. I am curious though, what is the thought behind painting/camouflaging them? Just aesthetics or to inhibit rust?

Rust isn't an issue here with an all stainless bolt/hanger/ring setup. Visual impact is an issue. That stuff is as shiny as chrome and can be seen reflecting sunlight from far away.
Camouflage isn't required in every climbing area, but it's always a good idea. Eldo fixed hardware requires a permit from the park, and the permit specifies that an attempt at camouflage is mandatory.

Gregger Man wrote:The Holy Grail of bolt replacement is a way to re-use the same hole through multiple generations of bolts. Glue-ins last the longest, but most can't be removed. Some can but it's no guarantee.

Let me first thank you for all the work you've done updating fixed hardware in Eldo. But would you update your Holy Grail a little bit?

Re-using the same hole is excellent, kudos for that. But what would you say to jettisoning the concept of "multiple generations of bolts"? It was a good idea but now it's time to let it go the way of button-heads and galvanized steel.

A glue-in bolt made from one of the new materials, such as 2205 or 904L stainless steel, or titanium, should last several centuries, not decades, in an environment like Eldo. In other words, it would be the last generation of bolt.

I agree that glue-ins are superior in many respects, and ACE will likely install some in the very near future.
Mechanical bolts won't go away over night, though. We are going to use the supply of SS bolts we have already bought.
Vandalism and top-rope misuse are also issues you have to consider when projecting the lifespan of a hole, a bolt and hanger.

Gregger Man wrote: We are going to use the supply of SS bolts we have already bought. Vandalism and top-rope misuse are also issues you have to consider when projecting the lifespan of a hole, a bolt and hanger.

Do you know the type of stainless bolts you're using (eg. 304, 316)?

The use of replaceable quick-links/rings, as you're already doing, should eliminate top-rope wear of the bolt. Only morons would top-rope through the new SS glue-ins I've seen. The diameter is so small a fall might cut the rope, if you could pull it at all.

Vandalism is something no one can prevent. Of course, there's some people who think putting a bolt in a rock is vandalism, so...

John Byrnes wrote: Do you know the type of stainless bolts you're using (eg. 304, 316)?

304 for the sleeves and bolt, 303 for the cone, and the washer is 18-8.

Gregger Man wrote: Powers bolts: 304 for the sleeves and bolt, 303 for the cone, and the washer is 18-8.

A very good choice for Eldo. They should last 50-100 years in that environment which is a definite improvement.

The next time ACE is making a buying decision, I hope they'll consider the new glue-ins. They could then plan to dissolve the organization ;-)

Thanks for the effort. I thought the painting was really well done when I saw it up close. It really blends in well, (the black paint looked goofy in your picture, but in person it was perfect)

Nice work Greg. Thank you to you and your fellow volunteers at ACE.

John Byrnes wrote: Of course, there's some people who think putting a bolt in a rock is vandalism, so...

That comment reminds me of the first time I saw these bolts on the Wind Tower. I believe it was early spring in 1985. I did think that was awful as it’s a straightforward downclimb that can be done faster than rappelling, and the downclimb had been used for decades. I avoided using the bolts. Later on that year I got caught in a downpour as we topped out on the Wind Tower. We rappelled off the bolts to descend. I didn’t feel good about it.

I was told that the bolts were installed by guides who wanted to make it easier to get their clients down. My friends and I thought the guides should be teaching their clients how to downclimb. That is something that is rarely done anymore since the increase in comfort rappel stations lessens the need for the skill.

Gregger, thanks for upgrading the bolts. The one thing that no one will argue about is that if the bolts are there, they should be safe.

Rob.calm