marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me

some folks have here have had issues with marmot warranties, especially with their rain jackets and delamination ... at least one BPL member doesnt even waste his time contacting them with warranty issues

backpackinglight.com/cgi-bi…

i dont have much marmot gear, my main item being a 4 year pack that doesnt see much use ... i have many better climbing packs

when i dropped the pack off to marmot a few weeks ago, the pack was in quite good condition

as you can see of the interior the pack is delaminating from the inside



they responsded ...

Hi Eric,

We looked at your BackPack, looks like it's worn out. Would you be interested in our RPR deal, which offers 50% off for a new back pack.
You can choose any you like on our website for half price.
Your Alpha 30 shows normal wear so it's not something we can repair/replace.

Please advise,
Thank you

now i know a thing or two about worn out packs, with the minimal use this pack sees, i wouldnt call it worn out at all

personally i really dont care at all if marmot covers it or not, i have several other packs i use ... i barely even use the marmot for city activities, never mind outdoors

so the bottom line?

marmot's "lifetime" warranty is basically worthless IME for even gear that isnt used that much ... delamination of the pack coating is not covered in my case ...

keep that in mind the next time you look at a marmot product

;)

Is that really a defect?

Ryan Nevius wrote:Is that really a defect?

IMO it is, the pack hasnt seen much use at all

i have other packs that have seen much more use without the inside delaminating

whether they cover it or not really doesnt matter too much to me at this point ... there really are no packs in the marmot line that i want, and i have no faith in them anyways

;)

Yeah...that sucks. I have had packs show this type of wear (osprey in particular) but only after quite a bit of use (ie 50+ days in the field). It would be in Marmot's best interest to warranty the pack...though this seems like an issue that would be pretty hard, if not impossible to repair. They recognize this and therefore want you to buy another pack instead of giving you a pack for free.

If you are being honest in saying this pack has seen very little use, then yes Marmot needs to honor their warranty. If they don't, then I don't blame you for dismissing them as a company.

Brands like Osprey, Outdoor Research, and Patagonia have amazing warranties...what is preventing Marmot from following suit?

i use the pack no more than 2 weeks a year outside on average ... and not on long hikes or climbs, but basically walking around the park on a short day hike ... i might use it a month a year to carry stuff to and the car in city, usually softgoods like cothes in the gym ... as you can see the exterior is in pretty good condition

i have an osprey mutant that ive put a few holes in, and i just tape em up and seam grip them ... i never bother contacting osprey even though they have the all mighty guarantee ... no delamination on that pack

moral of the story? ... support those companies with unlimited guarantees .... OR, MEC, EB, etc ... they care about their customers and are willing to back it up

unlike marmot IMO

i suspect that their "default" position is to offer 50% off purchases for warranties ... the problem is how much faith do you have in their service and products afterwards

if i really wanted to i could probably find the most expensive pack they sell and get 50% off ... and come out "ahead" ... but after this i have no desire to pay for any marmot products regardless of the discount

;)

I've had good, bad, and mediocre luck with Marmot's warranty. I think a lot of it is luck of the draw as far as the mood of whoever's working in warranty any given day goes.

That said, is there anything wrong with the function of that pack? Sure doesn't look like it to me. From my experience you get the 50% off offer when it's considered wear and tear, not a defect...seems totally appropriate to me given the photos (totally possible I'm missing something just going off the pics though).

Here's a tip you may like though, I know I sure did. Nicely explain that you really weren't happy with the pack and that none of the packs in their current catalog does anything for you. Ask, "can I just apply that 50% off to something else in your lineup?" They're almost sure to say yes and you can pick up whatever you want...say a tent, a sleeping bag, whatever at wholesale. It's not what you were looking for with your return, but it could still work out ok for you in the end.

Cheers,
Steve

Packs aren't waterproof anyway, so what's the big deal if the coating is coming off.

My $.02 = looks like the same lame coating they use on their Precip rain shells. One year, maybe two and POOF.

hmm you might want to look up the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. That federal act places the burden of proving the product is not covered under warranty upon the manufacturer. In other words, I believe you have a legal right to ask the manufacturer to prove the damage was not caused by a defect, and if they cant they are required under federal law to replace the product.

The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act is famous for protecting those who modify automobiles. It states that it is illegal for a manufacturer to void a warranty solely because you modified a part. They can only void a warranty on the part you modified, and only if they can prove the modification resulted in damage to the part.

20 kN wrote:hmm you might want to look up the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. That federal act places the burden of proving the product is not covered under warranty upon the manufacturer. In other words, I believe you have a legal right to ask the manufacturer to prove the damage was not caused by a defect, and if they cant they are required under federal law to replace the product. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act is famous for protecting those who modify automobiles. It states that it is illegal for a manufacturer to void a warranty solely because you modified a part. They can only void a warranty on the part you modified, and only if they can prove the modification resulted in damage to the part.

Magnuson-Moss applies to Americans.

Ok. Here it comes. Why are climbers such cheap grubbing bastards. No offense BB. That lining is clearly worn out, not delaminating. Delaminatuon is when two materials still in good shape no longer bond. The question is "is it worn out prematurely". Take the 50% off and move on.

Generally, I like your posts. But, this one... I don't agree.

The money is irrelevant

The pack spent most of its life in my closet ... Theres packs that i use daily that dont have this issue

Im picking the pack up next week and giving it to someone in need of any bag

Im actually glad that this happened ... Im in the market for a down bag and tent for next season ... If marmot cant deal with a pack, i have no confidence theyll deal with anything more expensive propely

If people here want to buy marmot its up to them ... Just remember there are other companies out there will total satisfaction warranty

;)

bearbreeder wrote:The money is irrelevant

I'm calling bs on this one even if you are a millionaire. If the pack were free or if the replacement were free you would not be posting. Money matters.

I owned a Go lite pack. It was light but flimsy. I gave it to a porter in Peru. He was very grateful. I bought a Mountain Hardware pack that is much heavier. I beat the crap out of it. It is still in good condition many years later. I did not whine on the web about the gl pack.

Call it what you want ... Doesnt matter to me

I rarely use the marmot, so its fairly useless to me

There are companies that stand behind their products regardless ... Your choice if you want to buy from one that doesnt

Like i said i could actually make more than what i paid by getting 50% off their most expensive pack ... I simply have no faith in them

Thats my experience , if MPer think its whinning, i suggest you buy marmot then

;)

Your pack is worn out. It is not a "stand behind your product" situation.

Jesus.

See beat down from Ray below:

Marmot packs suck and you're a whiner. If I were a retailer or manufacturer I'd happily send you to a competitor.

Greg D wrote:Your pack is worn out. It is not a "stand behind your product" situation. Jesus. See beat down from Ray below:

like i said the pack sees minimal use ... the exterior was still in very good condition when i sent it in

it spends basically 11 months of the year in the closet ... guess thats "wearing" it out MP style =P

there ARE companies that stand behind their products regardless ... go play with yr marmots

blah blah blah blah

MP "beatdowns" now?

;)

Ray Pinpillage wrote:Marmot packs suck and you're a whiner. If I were a retailer or manufacturer I'd happily send you to a competitor.

there been several items ive had issues with on MP

1. dead bird harnesses ... a few MPers shouted and screamed ... and lo and behold a year or two later we have multiple posts from multiple MPers whose dead bird harnesses have worn out prematurely ... and where dead bird has reportedly said their harnesses are good for "200 days"

2. metolius small TCUs and mastercams ... MPers including you went off ... and we still have posts popping up about people with issues with the grey/purple metolius

you arent a retailer or manufaturer ... if you were theyd be KAPUT

Ray Pinpillage wrote:That pack is still serviceable and you could still use it if you wanted to. Instead you're using it as an excuse to run down a manufacturer that doesn't kowtow to your entitlement mentality.

when a pack delaminates it loses water resistance and soaks up ... now no pack is really waterproof short of a dry bag, but manufacturers put those coatings on packs for a reason ... not to mention that as it wears off theres fluff flying off all over the pack

now a peeling paint job on a car doesnt affect its "performance" but then under the "ray Pinpillage" brand it wouldnt be covered either ... do you work for chrysler by chance, that would explain alot

hmmmm

;)

bearbreeder wrote: there been several items ive had issues with on MP 1. dead bird harnesses ... a few MPers shouted and screamed ... and lo and behold a year or two later we have multiple posts from multiple MPers whose dead bird harnesses have worn out prematurely ... and where dead bird has reportedly said their harnesses are good for "200 days" 2. metolius small TCUs and mastercams ... MPers including you went off ... and we still have posts popping up about people with issues with the grey/purple metolius you arent a retailer or manufaturer ... if you were theyd be KAPUT ;)

Bullshit, the issue is that you think you are entitled to unconditional returns for the rest of your life. You broke that TCU, tried to claim it was a defect, and then complained when Metolius told you to beet it.

Its gotta be cheap and its gotta be warrantied for your whole life or you're over here on MP crying like a petulant child.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Bullshit, the issue is that you think you are entitled to unconditional returns for the rest of your life. You broke that TCU, tried to claim it was a defect, and then complained when Metolius told you to beet it. Its gotta be cheap and its be warrantied for your whole life or you're over here on MP crying like a petulant child.

youre a LIAR

i never contacted metolius .. i simply took it back to MEC

i invite you to QUOTE THE POST where i contacted metolius ... you cant

heres the most recent issue someone had with metolius 0/00 cam ... fortunately metolius covered anyways despite any "ray pinpillage" moralities

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/great-metolius-customer-service/108216883

;)

bearbreeder wrote: youre a LIAR i never contacted metolius .. i simply took it back to MEC i invite you to QUOTE THE POST where i contacted metolius ... you cant heres the most recent issue someone had with metolius 0/00 cam ... fortunately metolius covered anyways despite any "ray pinpillage" moralities mountainproject.com/v/great… ;)

Oh ok, so you just claimed it was a defect (after breaking it) and took it back to the retailer. Got it.

I've had a lot of positive experiences with manufacturers over the years. I interact with retail customers, retailers, reps, and manufacturers (not in the climbing industry) every day and you're the reason why some manufacturers come out with boilerplate return policies.

Should Marmot replace that pack? Maybe. It depends on the stated warranty and your attitude. If its out of warranty and you're the same person in real life as you are here (a total whiner douche) then probably not. If I were Marmot I would replace the pack to build goodwill but I can understand why they won't. Either way it doesn't change that it is YOU that is beating this drum once again.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Oh ok, so you just claimed it was a defect (after breaking it) and took it back to the retailer. I've had a lot of positive experiences with manufacturers over the years. I interact with retail customers, retailers, reps, and manufacturers (not in the climbing industry) every day and you're the reason why some manufacturers come out with boilerplate return policies. Should Marmot replace that pack? Maybe. It depends on the stated warranty and your attitude. If its out of warranty and you're the same person in real life as you are here (a total whiner douche) then probably not. If I were Marmot I would replace the pack to build goodwill but I can understand why they won't. Either way it doesn't change that it is YOU that is beating this drum once again.

it seems that MANY MPers "broke" those cams ... i dont think weve heard that many cams "breaking" in a long time ... perhaps you could provide examples where there are that many posts by MPers with other "breaking" cams short of aliens, and even they didnt have this many examples

i stopped by the marmot office (its really a marketing company which marmot contracts out all their warranty in canada for) and had a nice chat to drop off the pack ... talked about various things including climbing

you can whine about beating drums all you want ... the simple fact is positive and negative experiences are posted on the intrawebs

perhaps you would prefer that MPers not know about issues other people have with service and gear ... dead bird harnesses dont really wear out fast, metolius 0/00 cam stops dont just come off ... really ... despite the posts by members that are coming out about such issues =P

i trust MPers can make their own decisions about what they buy ... and what they filter out

my experience is simply reflected in the initial post ... some may listen to it .. some may think its 'whinning" ....

but dont worry ... im sure you can get the NSA to erase all the posts somehow if it doesnt meet with your approval

;)