Scared to lead 5.10!!??

5.samadhi wrote:^ Shouldn't you add a caveat about taking a safe whipper? You should have two trustworthy pieces in that will keep you off the deck/ledges before you intentionally whip off a route. Have you not heard of bolts failing???

To me it is not a practice whipper if:
1) only one piece is between you and the ground
2) you might deck because you are so run-out
Maybe I should have mentioned that and not assumed people use common sense :-)

Sack up and go whip off of the top of p1 of the Norwand or Too! (both 5.10s) at Little Eiger in CCC. Safe, good climbing. Overhung cruxes, clean falls. Have at it.

Edit: just read that you are having trouble with slab. Can't help you there. I hate slab. Scares the bahjesus out of me.

This reminded me of a good story :-)

I've climbed with Mike Munger a couple times, he put up a few hard/scary routes in Eldo back in the day, and I believe he also nabbed the second American ascent of the North Face of the Eiger. When they first started using nylon ropes and more reliable gear, and were finally getting away from the "do not fall" mentality, he and a partner decided they wanted to get over their fear of falling. They went up to the top of the The Diving Board , tied off a few trees, payed out 100+ feet of rope, and Mike jumped off. They were still using pretty crappy harnesses at the time, not much better than a swami belt, and that combined with the factor two fall broke a few of Mike's ribs — of course, then he had to prussik back up the rope afterwards, broken ribs and all!

The irony is that he told me he's had a much worse fear of falling ever since. So this may not be the best way for you to get over your fear... ;-)

EDIT to add: after a little digging, it seems his partner in the stunt was Charlie Fowler.

You should be scared. Falling is dangerous. I broke my ankle on my first lead fall. Every climbing rescue I've done were injuries do to falls on 5.10 or under. Bowling, now that's a safe sport.

Jake Jones wrote: Hold on loosely, but don't let go. If you cling too tightly, you're gonna lose control.

This is fantastic...and also going to annoy the $#!T out of me while climbing tomorrow.

Appreciate all the replies!! This is why I love MP I got tons of great advice on here put it to use on a route and made it.. I didn't fall but my mind was more relaxed and I didn't stress over" what ifs" thanks for all the input guys I plan to keep trying everything everyone mentioned..

5.samadhi wrote: This!!! I was just going to mention that I am still scared on 5.10 sport and I have been climbing for 10+ years on and off. I am much more comfortable on 5.11 or even 5.12 which is near my limit at the moment. It is because the falls on a 5.10 are often really nasty...all those holds that make it 5.10 (the big wonky ones) - they also are real good to twist or break an ankle :( I wouldn't recommend taking a forced fall.

I'm not calling you out, but I just need to ask if this has even happened to you? I had this same fear until I took Arno's Falling & Commitment class recently when we spent 4 hrs falling on vertical wall. Unless some jackass pulls in all the slack just before you fall the chances of this happening in a gym are unlikely. A lot of fears such as this are completely unwarranted until we've actually been in this situation. A few examples are:Falling over a ledge, falling above a step roof, falling on a slab, or falling on anything less than steep in the gym for fear of hitting a protrusion on the wall. Most of us have a natural fear of this and it's not even something we've ever experienced, but something we perceive as an outcome because it's a situation we're not as able to control as much as falling into space on a steep wall. We know what will happen on a steep overhanging route, but in other types of falls we have no idea.

It's all a matter of working up to in a controlled environment and building it up to a perceived uncontrolled situation to experience the outcome. Falling is a natural part of climbing period. I goto the gym to train for the outdoors and my projects. So a BIG part of my training is falling. Instead of spending 2 hrs just doing routes in the gym I'll spend another 15 mins just taking falls as part of my overall training. Arno says it's better to do a little bit each day of falling training vs a lot one day every now and then.

Some tips (all from the class):
1) Start off taking top rope falls. Push out from the wall and come land back into the wall with soft knees
2) Lead up to the last bolt of a route. Have your belayer lower you 5 to 10-ft. Climb up to the last bolt without the belayer taking up any slack. Hold onto the holds, look up, take 3 deep breaths and let go on the 3rd. Imagine sitting back into a chair as your falling. As you fall release your breath evenly until you come to the end of your fall. This helps your body relax when you fall.
3) Do Step 2, but start takin lead falls in the same manner and build up to bigger falls.
4) Uncontrolled falls. This one can be dangerous with the wrong person belaying you, but it's great for getting comfortable with uncontrolled falls. Climb up a route (preferably a steep route) and when the belayer yells "Falling!" take a fall. Keep practicing this until your reaction time gets shorter and shorter between when the belayer yells falling and you let go. Also make damn the belayer is able to analyze a dangerous situation such as yelling when you're in the middle of a clip, or with the rope behind your leg, or too low to the ground.

Also the main thing is to climb with someone you fully trust and pays attention to nothing else in the gym except you before doing any fall training.

jarthur wrote: I'm not calling you out, but I just need to ask if this has even happened to you? I had this same fear until I took Arno's Falling & Commitment class recently when we spent 4 hrs falling on vertical wall. Unless some jackass pulls in all the slack just before you fall the chances of this happening in a gym are unlikely. A lot of fears such as this are completely unwarranted until we've actually been in this situation. A few examples are:Falling over a ledge, falling above a step roof, falling on a slab, or falling on anything less than steep in the gym for fear of hitting a protrusion on the wall. Most of us have a natural fear of this and it's not even something we've ever experienced, but something we perceive as an outcome because it's a situation we're not as able to control as much as falling into space on a steep wall. We know what will happen on a steep overhanging route, but in other types of falls we have no idea. It's all a matter of working up to in a controlled environment and building it up to a perceived uncontrolled situation to experience the outcome. Falling is a natural part of climbing period. I goto the gym to train for the outdoors and my projects. So a BIG part of my training is falling. Instead of spending 2 hrs just doing routes in the gym I'll spend another 15 mins just taking falls as part of my overall training. Arno says it's better to do a little bit each day of falling training vs a lot one day every now and then. Some tips (all from the class): 1) Start off taking top rope falls. Push out from the wall and come land back into the wall with soft knees 2) Lead up to the last bolt of a route. Have your belayer lower you 5 to 10-ft. Climb up to the last bolt without the belayer taking up any slack. Hold onto the holds, look up, take 3 deep breaths and let go on the 3rd. Imagine sitting back into a chair as your falling. As you fall release your breath evenly until you come to the end of your fall. This helps your body relax when you fall. 3) Do Step 2, but start takin lead falls in the same manner and build up to bigger falls. 4) Uncontrolled falls. This one can be dangerous with the wrong person belaying you, but it's great for getting comfortable with uncontrolled falls. Climb up a route (preferably a steep route) and when the belayer yells "Falling!" take a fall. Keep practicing this until your reaction time gets shorter and shorter between when the belayer yells falling and you let go. Also make damn the belayer is able to analyze a dangerous situation such as yelling when you're in the middle of a clip, or with the rope behind your leg, or too low to the ground. Also the main thing is to climb with someone you fully trust and pays attention to nothing else in the gym except you before doing any fall training.

I have never broken my ankle on a lead fall but when I began leading I chose mainly 5.11s and up to climb. I like climbing harder routes much more than 5.10 and below. There are more than enough cases of people hurting themselves falling on a low grade route though...no need to take from direct personal experience here.

On trad I am the same way, I prefer climbing clean stuff...sometimes you can find a clean dihedral that is 5.9 or 5.10 in trad...with sport a 5.9 is going to be much more likely to hurt you (by chance hitting a knob/mini ledge, etc).

On harder sport these features usually disappear or if they are there they are well protected since they are few and far between (hopefully the bolter was thoughtful).

No idea how this applies to a gym. I have only ever bouldered in a gym in 15 years of climbing.

Falling well is a learned skill.

Ironically, proper falling on harder sport climbs is easier than proper falling on easier sport climbs.

Nevertheless, appropriate practice can improve anybody's falling skill. Plenty of risk involved in practice falls, so maybe worth trying to learn at a reasonable pace.

Paradoxically, I find improved falling skills actually improves my climbing skills, by allowing a more relaxed, prepared attitude.

Hey Zach,

Just wondering if you've been able to overcome your fears that you've been having with leading. I came here to write a similar thread and saw yours. I have really similar issues where I can top rope low/mid 11s with little fear and can fall without an issue on TR, but leading most stuff in the 9+/10 region almost puts me into "survival" mode with my nerves going crazy. Once that happens, I climb in the least efficient manner, wear myself out super quickly, and practically climb clip to clip.

I'm frustrated where I see my friends push themselves and improving and I feel that I'm holding myself back. I like all the suggestions in this thread. Just curious if anything specific worked for you to overcome this.

Thanks!

Everything mentioned so far is good advice (practice falls, pushing it on safe climbs, etc).

One thing I noticed though was a lot of mention about steep routes and "clean" falls. A lot of times if a climb is ledgy or otherwise has stuff to hit, yeah, don't fall. But just because a route is vertical or slightly less than vertical doesn't mean you will wreck yourself if you fall. It just takes a bit more technique or your part, as opposed to an overhang where you can just fall into air.

Get used to falling safely on vertical/mildly slabby terrain as well, as you will likely encounter it at some point in your climbing career.

Lots of people suggest practice falls, which might help if you're deathly afraid of falling in general, but for me it never really helped. Personally, I want there to be a fear of falling: I don't want to fall, I want to succeed, and falling is failure. Fear can be very motivating.

A breakthrough moment for me was to make myself stop thinking "I hope I don't fall", and instead focus on the climbing, telling myself that "I can make this move". If a climb is within your ability, you CAN make the move. If you've top roped it before, you HAVE made the move.

Being comfortable falling isn't your goal. Your goal is to be able to manage that fear and using it to figure out how to NOT fall. Being efficient, finding good clipping stances (not just the first position where you can reach the clip), using rests, and learning how long you can actually keep holding onto something after you start thinking "I can't hold on any longer". In my opinion, the only way to do this is practice climbing at your limit. If you've practiced falling to the point where it's second nature, what's the real motivation to keep holding on?

Leading in the gym is always a good idea because they're generally setup so that every lead fall will be safe. Though the caveat is that falling before the second clip will still usually suck. But if you're afraid to hop on that 11 because of the first couple clips then instead just hop on the neighboring 9, clip a few bolts, then continue on the 11. I'll also do many laps on climbs well below my limit. Enough reps on that 9 and you'll eventually question your ability to keep holding on, but if you have the courage to keep going then you'll surprise yourself.