Only in the Potrero could I get away with this...

dvilim wrote:My main problem with this is the whole "look what I can get away with in mexico, id be hanged if it were anywhere else" vibe of Ed's post. Just because it isnt in a first world country doesnt mean you dont have to respect whats there.

Kind of a week argument.

Are you disturbed by the "look what I can get away with at Rifle, I'd be hanged if it were at the Gunks" vibe, out of curiosity? Ethics vary pretty significantly, not just by nation, but by state, region, land ownership, history, user base, and law.

In Ed's case, what he did may seem tacky to some people coming from other areas, just the same way that some people seeking a wilderness experience at the Potrero would think that blasting stereos in the canyon is tacky. However, locals and most visiting users for the most part do not have problems with either.

And for what it's worth, to quote a comment from another thread on this site a while back, complaining about a bolted-on belay platform at Potrero is like complaining that the kiddy-bumper car ride at Disneyland makes you wear seatbelts. The entire philosophy behind route development at Potrero is not to give you a wilderness experience; it is to make BIG routes as easy and accessible as possible to gumby bolt clippers of mediocre abilities, and it's actually a lot of fun. That's it.

I should point out that there is plenty here for the hard climbers as well, as evidenced by Mr. Honnold's recent two-month visit. There's also miles of unclimbed walls so there is plenty of adventure for those who seek it.

todd w wrote:Perspective: How dare you, Ed. How dare you.

ah the "look what others are doing, which is worse, so I should be able to get away with what I'm doing" argument. Yay logical fallacies.

Does that mean we should disregard leave no trace ethics because multinationals are polluting the earth on unbelievable levels?

Sure it may be a drop in the bucket but those drops and the attitude that they don't matter makes a difference. Yes bolts are a "trace" that climbers leave but is one that causes the least possible harm in making a climb possible (if there is no natural pro). But that piece of steel is a unnecessary extravagance that is not needed.

dvilim wrote: I just think that without some base ethics on what should/should not get bolted, you will end up taking a lot away from what otherwise is a beautiful area to climb.

While I generally dont agree with bolting lines that can easily be protected on gear, I am not as against as it as many are. Some seem to think that bolting a gear-protectable climb turns the route to complete shit and makes it completely unclimbable. I dont find bolts on gear-protectable to have any affect on my experience on the line. Granted, I dont want to see Zion splitters grid bolted, but if I see a bolt next to a crack on The Nose (which does exist), I am not going to flip out. I dont think it is worth the wasted brain power to argue the validity of some random bolted possibly gear-protectable climb. The Compressor route is a perfect example to back my opinion. I find it incomprehensible that someone is so against bolting alpine lines that they decide to exert the monumental time and effort required to chop a multi-day line.

So in short, dont bolt gear-protectable climbs, but dont waste away your life arguing about bolting.

No, you could definitely get away with that in Thailand. We built a ledge big enough for a few people to bivy on. But we made it out of bamboo. Much more aesthetic and environmentally friendly.

Why didn't you use wood, or better, why didn't you glue some rock to the wall?

Funny how it says "Virgin Rock" right below the picture of the guy standing on a metal ledge that has been bolted on to the wall. No doubt it was a painful first time for the girl eh?

Two of these, each with room for 3 climbers. Comfortable for rappel line on a popular climb. Things are different over here...

Ed has devoted endless time, energy, and resources to making el potrero chico as amazing as it is. He's made available at no charge thousands of pitches of pure climbing enjoyment (even to the haters). By now he's earned the artistic license to do what he wants and experiment with new ideas. Actually, my EPC partner would have appreciated a belay ledge, she said the hanging belays hurt b/c she was wearing a non padded arc'teryx harness.

EricSchmidt wrote: Good point. I guess chipping is no longer an issue either since rocks eventually fall of... Maybe I could come to Salt Lake and turn The Coffin into a hand crack because eventually God is going to turn it into one as well.... Some peoples stupidity while trying to make a point is amazing!

I'd say your retort and comparison is just as stupid considering chipping actually changes the rock a red streak of iron oxide only does so aesthetically not physically & the ledge could just as easily be removed like chopping a bolt.

Ed,

Thank you for your contribution to the climbing community. Very few people give back to our growing sport and it is refreshing to see new solutions created by members of the fold.

Ignore all the haters here, they're too busy trolling MP to be out climbing anyways.

You should challenge them to go down to Potrero and NOT use your new belay ledge since they apparently feel quite strongly about it.