Edelrid Mega Jul

superkick wrote:is it just me or is your smart alpine not set up properly for belaying from the anchor?

The caribiner is placed outside the channels to autoblock from an anchor. It is what makes the Smart so easy to pull rope through belaying from an anchor. The Mega Jul works the same way but has to be flipped over and is the same reason it works better than a Reverso 3/4 or ATC-G.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: I don't notice the drag on the Smart but I did notice the Mega Jul needs a hand on the brake to lock when the Smart will just lock up.

Can you provide more info as you use the Mega Jul more? I like how the Smart is almost auto locking. Great when me or someone else is sitting our way up a hard TR and nice to have on multi also.
Is there that much of a difference? Only on new/skinnier ropes?

i was thinking of buying it, but the two key features is the "near" autolocking of the smart (it really isnt 100% of the time, but its better than nothing) and the ease of the autoblock

i want the first due to the possibility of rock fall knocking out the belayer

the second because 12-20 pitches of pulling a rope in autoblock, its worth a bit of extra weight to save your arms IMO

so this has helped me save some moola ;)

Jon H wrote:Hi Ray, thanks for the review, it's very helpful. When rappelling in auto-block mode, is it possible to use it like an Alpine Smart, i.e. hook your thumb in the plastic thumb loop and release tension on the device in that fashion (without needing an extra biner as a "lever")?

I know John said no to this but I had pretty good success. I think short of a full overhung rap I prefer to use the thumb loop instead of a caribiner. Same goes for lowering climbers. The caribiner method adds in a lot of friction so in many situations it'll be easier and smoother to use the thumb loop.

bearbreeder wrote:i was thinking of buying it, but the two key features is the "near" autolocking of the smart (it really isnt 100% of the time, but its better than nothing) and the ease of the autoblock i want the first due to the possibility of rock fall knocking out the belayer the second because 12-20 pitches of pulling a rope in autoblock, its worth a bit of extra weight to save your arms IMO so this has helped me save some moola ;)

The lock-up inconsistency has been bothering me since I first tried it. I tried six different ropes and was able to replicate the problem with all but twins. I believe the issue is the diameter of the caribiner. I was using a Metolius Element and it would not lock up without a hand on the brake on every rope from 10.5 to 9.0. I switched out the caribiner to a BD Rock-Lock and the issue went away completely. I tried a number of different lockers and the smaller the spine the better. I tried a OP Jake-Lock and it was the opposite, worse. The Jake-Lock would not lock in the Smart either.

Also, the lock up on 8mm twins is flawless on all caribiners but the OP Jake. The larger Alpine Smart, which is not sized for 8mm twins, lets rope slip through without holding the rope. Holding the rope and the Alipne Smart works better with 8mm twins.

The Mega Jul is clearly better for smaller ropes and smaller spine'd caribiners than bigger ropes (the Smart too really). I have a Smart and the Mega Jul, they each have their strengths. For a 20 pitch wall with 10mm-9mm singles I'd pick the Smart. Everything else I'd pick the Mega Jul.

And, as I said before, your hand should be on the brake strand anyway.

Just pointing out neither of these devices are made to lock without a hand on the brake end. It seems like one can get lucky and they will at times, though.

WillamR wrote:Just pointing out neither of these devices are made to lock without a hand on the brake end. It seems like one can get lucky and they will at times, though.

You should always have a hand on the brake

But reality is that in a rockfall, yr belayer may be konked out

The smart is fairly reliable in locking up ... Nothing is 100% though

Thanks for the review ... I think ill stick with my smart

For multi the smooth as butter autobloc is just too useful ;)

WillamR wrote:Just pointing out neither of these devices are made to lock without a hand on the brake end. It seems like one can get lucky and they will at times, though.

All the "auto" devices on the market are "assisted", welcome to 1995.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: All the "auto" devices on the market are "assisted", welcome to 1995.

Yeah, but in 2013 you're the one writing [emphasis mine] "The lock-up inconsistency has been bothering me since I first tried it. I tried six different ropes and was able to replicate the problem with all but twins...I was using a Metolius Element and it would not lock up without a hand on the brake...I switched out the carabiner...and the issue went away completely.

Something the device isn't intended to do isn't a "problem," an "inconsistency," or an "issue." Those terms can, however, be applied to types of usage that are specifically excluded by the manufacturer, and what your observations illustrate is the manufacturer's warning about the device not being an autolocker are accurate and not just legal boilerplate. Although interesting, some of those observations are potentially dangerous, since you suggest that "the [unassisted] lock up on 8mm twins is flawless on all carabiners but the OP Jake." Let's hope no one actually believes that!

You haven't said anything about the repeatability of any of your observations, including the one about the "flawless" behavior of 8mm twins.

Whether or not an assisted locking device actually locks without a hand on the brake stand(s) probably depends on a host of factors, including the magnitude and orientation of the impact load, the rope type, diameter, and number of ropes, sheath wear, carabiner type, how much rope weight there is on the brake strand side, and who knows what other subtleties. The only thing that is certain is that autolocking isn't certain.

Don't get me wrong---I'm a fan of the assisted locking concept and use such a device myself (Alpine Up).

rgold wrote: Let's hope no one actually believes that!

Let's hope no one actually believes anything they read on the internet. This is a lame gear review on a forum, sorry you took it as anything else. I'll add a warning to the OP.

With that out of the way, I did a 60m overhung rap on 10'something ropes using the locking function without extending and it sucked. The ropes were fat and they hung directly down off the Mega Jul. The tuber side with a prusik would have been easier. The Smart is pretty awful in the same situation.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: The tuber side with a prusik would have been easier. The Smart is pretty awful in the same situation.

ive rapped many a time in the same situation with the smart ... and i found it fine ...

what biner/rope combo are you using with the smart?

Two supersafes with a rock-lock. Slow and pumpy.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:Two supersafes with a rock-lock. Slow and pumpy.

mammuts (ironic) and maxims 10mm+ are bad ropes to use with the smart as they tend to be stiffer, especially when they get fuzzy and older

the rocklock is also a poor choice for the alpine smart ... the petzl william and DMM boa work pretty smoothly for rapping ... many climbers i know had issues with the rocklock or other biners until i got them to switch out to the boa/william

that said i rapped down a maxim glider very quickly over the weekend off a multi ... alot of it has to do with how you hold open the rap device .... there is a certain method ...

the alpine smart is very biner and rope dependent for smooth operation ... but once you find a combo that works, its quite smooth ... the gri gri is still the smoothest device on lead belaying with 10mm gyms ropes for me, but the alpine smart aint that far behind, the ATC guide which ive used for years is less smooth IMO

i think one of the issues about the use of the alpine smart is that many people i know come from an ATC background to it (lets face it if yr a sport weenie whose used a gri gri for a decade, you arent switching) ....

i see people not stacking out the ropes properly, not using a hand to shake out the rope occasionally, and other such habits that you can get away with an ATC ... with a gri gri/smart you need to do these things to insure the rope feeds smoothly ... not just belay from a thrown down mess of ropes ...

the gri gri also has issues wth thick stiff ropes IMO ...

all this is worth it for the smooth as butter autoblock of the smart IMO ... especially if you are taking up 2 cute girls ;)

Hi! I would like to chime in on this, too.
Please keep in mind that I work for Edelrid North America. On the one hand you might think I´m biased, of course, but I can also provide very good first hand info regarding the MegaJul (or any other Edelrid product).
Regarding availability, right now your safest bet is mountaingear.com. They have the device in stock. Other vendors will follow shortly and the MegaJul will be widely available within April.

It also works very well when using it with half-ropes. You don´t need to have your thumb on the loop the entire time to feed out rope. You only use the loop to get the device out of the locked-mode. You can feed in the rope "from-above" (steep angle) without the device locking up. To do so you will need some practice but I do it all the time and it works great for me.

I hope I could clear some things up. Happy climbing!

bearbreeder wrote: mammuts (ironic) and maxims 10mm+ are bad ropes to use with the smart as they tend to be stiffer, especially when they get fuzzy and older the rocklock is also a poor choice for the alpine smart ... the petzl william and DMM boa work pretty smoothly for rapping ... many climbers i know had issues with the rocklock or other biners until i got them to switch out to the boa/william that said i rapped down a maxim glider very quickly over the weekend off a multi ... alot of it has to do with how you hold open the rap device .... there is a certain method ... the alpine smart is very biner and rope dependent for smooth operation ... but once you find a combo that works, its quite smooth ... the gri gri is still the smoothest device on lead belaying with 10mm gyms ropes for me, but the alpine smart aint that far behind, the ATC guide which ive used for years is less smooth IMO i think one of the issues about the use of the alpine smart is that many people i know come from an ATC background to it (lets face it if yr a sport weenie whose used a gri gri for a decade, you arent switching) .... i see people not stacking out the ropes properly, not using a hand to shake out the rope occasionally, and other such habits that you can get away with an ATC ... with a gri gri/smart you need to do these things to insure the rope feeds smoothly ... not just belay from a thrown down mess of ropes ... the gri gri also has issues wth thick stiff ropes IMO ... all this is worth it for the smooth as butter autoblock of the smart IMO ... especially if you are taking up 2 cute girls ;)

You're probably right and I'd bet the same goes for the Mega Jul as well. I think both devices function better with thinner ropes. Maybe I'll buy a william, I was thinking about an Atache 3D for the Mega Jul.

Davis Stevenson wrote: Thanks! My gym is an Edelrid dealer, too... I'll see what kind of timeframe it'll be before they have them here.

http://www.mountaingear.com/webstore/Gear/Climbing/Belay-descent/Edelrid/Mega-Jul/_/R-237855.htm

Here is my video review :

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G-LD3KjkEjQ

i found that quite hilarious actually !!!

"Mamoot" always cracks me up.

He said AUTOBLOCK!!11!111!!11!