Geeking out on going light with trad.

Rob Warden, Space Lizard wrote: dragons are way lighter untill you get to the the 1 camolot then its meh.

This appears incorrect.

Blue: BD .3 71gm; DMM 00 75gm-- Advantage BD by 4 Grams
Silver: BD .4 83gm; DMM 0 85gm-- Advantage BD by 3 Grams
Purple: BD. 5 97gm; DMM 1 97gm-- Equal; but advantage to DMM due to longer sling.

Sizes .75, 1 and 2 (BD Sizes) is where Dragons shine!

Green: BD .75 116gm; DMM 106gm-- Advantage DMM 10 Grams
Red: BD 1 124gm; DMM 119gm-- Advantage DMM 15 Grams
Yellow: BD 2 158gm; Dmm 148gm-- Advantage DMM 10 Grams

DMM maintains there advantage on Blue (BD3) and Grey (BD4) by 6 and 2 grams each.

So dragons only really have a discernable difference for BD sizes .75, 1 & 2.

It seems that Metolius Power UL Cams wins the light game except for BD size 3 & 4 which are bigger than their range.

johnthethird: "walk more? Are you sure about that? Seems to me, and Im pretty sure its been tested (though dont ask me where) that a single axle unit is going to walk less than a double axle piece. Things just rotate and swivel, rather than walking."

Yeah look at size and shape and length then use each a bunch and talk to me about which walk more on you. I just clip em w mini draw almost always

PRRose wrote:It would be useful to compare the weight of your dream rack to a standard rack.

...vs the weight of your morning movement. Then break it down in $/gram.

PRRose wrote:It would be useful to compare the weight of your dream rack to a standard rack.

"Standard Rack" thats a vague concept.

But lets do that for my "standard".

Harness: Standard=350GM (BD Momentum); Light=240GM (Camp Air) -90GM

Biners: 50-Units (My "Standard" for long pitches; Alpine Draws and Racking Biners) 40GM's (average) 50*40=2,000GM; Light=23GM (Nano's) 23*50=1,150GM; -850GM

Slings 20 (60CM; a lot..I know..but my "standard") BD 18MM nylon 36GM 36*20=720GM; Mammut 8MM 14GM 14*20=280GM; -440GM

Cams Doubles of BD .3 - 4 All BD C4's = 4,150gm; Light= Metolius UL Power Cams; 2-8 Doubles-1,340gm + Dragon 5&6=941gm 1,340+941=2,281GM -1869GM

Savings=
Harness -90
Biners -850
Slings -440
Cams -1869

Sum- 3,249 Grams (excluding nuts, small cams, locking biner and belay); That is over 7 pounds!

tenesmus wrote:Why don't you just loose 10 pounds?

Because I already range between 8% and 11% bodyfat and like to drink beer.

Sandy Crimp wrote: Sum- 3,249 Grams (excluding nuts, small cams, locking biner and belay); That is over 7 pounds!

Double Set of C3's/TCU's;

BD(000-2)=598GM
UL-MetoliusTCU(00-3)=498Gm

Savings- 100GM or 3.5 ounces;

Tough call here.. I love them both.. I say split the difference with one set of both. Sometimes a TCU is PERFECT...sometimes..only a C3 will fit (small head size).

I like the ultralight CAMP biners, but the Nano is starting to get a little small to be called full size. The Photon is just a couple grams more and is truly full sized. The Photon screw gate is a fantastic locking biner but I generally try to not run my ropes through it because there's so little metal to wear through. Those BD mini-pearabiners can be nice for that.

dont think anybody has mentioned tri-cams. small to mids are probably best you can get for the weight and range.

Sandy Crimp wrote:Cams Doubles of BD .3 - 4 All BD C4's = 4,150gm; Light= Metolius UL Power Cams; 2-8 Doubles-1,340gm + Dragon 5&6=941gm 1,340+941=2,281GM -1869GM

You might want to check your math. You're not going to save 1.87kg (over 4 lbs!) by switching from one brand of cams to another. I think you miscalculated the weight of the BD cams. A double set of BD C4s .3 to 4 doesn't weigh anywhere near 4kg. I come up with 1,137g for a single set or 2,274g for a double set. I'm using this chart: backcountry.com/Store/conte…;categoryId=bcsCat81111072

OTOH it looks like you're comparing a set of 16 BD cams with a set of 18 Metolius and DMM cams. If you want an apples-to-apples comparison you could exclude the Metolius 8. In that case the Metolius/DMM set weighs 1,981g. That's a bit lighter than the BD set, but the difference is only 293g or about 10oz. Not 4+ lbs.

Sandy Crimp wrote: This appears incorrect. Blue: BD .3 71gm; DMM 00 75gm-- Advantage BD by 4 Grams Silver: BD .4 83gm; DMM 0 85gm-- Advantage BD by 3 Grams Purple: BD. 5 97gm; DMM 1 97gm-- Equal; but advantage to DMM due to longer sling. Sizes .75, 1 and 2 (BD Sizes) is where Dragons shine! Green: BD .75 116gm; DMM 106gm-- Advantage DMM 10 Grams Red: BD 1 124gm; DMM 119gm-- Advantage DMM 15 Grams Yellow: BD 2 158gm; Dmm 148gm-- Advantage DMM 10 Grams DMM maintains there advantage on Blue (BD3) and Grey (BD4) by 6 and 2 grams each. So dragons only really have a discernable difference for BD sizes .75, 1 & 2. It seems that Metolius Power UL Cams wins the light game except for BD size 3 & 4 which are bigger than their range.

Meh is an approximate value... I dident weigh them. the few times I used them I was not blow away by the difference till around the two camalot. But hell this threads about slaying grams, so chastised i am the difference between the BD 4 and the DMM is crazy though. I like the helium 4 more but that's really more of a 3.5+ to 4- YMMV

8-11% fat on your body, & counting grams on biners??? You are barking up the wrong tree. Smell the beer then give to friend to drink.

JMo wrote:8-11% fat on your body, & counting grams on biners??? You are barking up the wrong tree. Smell the beer then give to friend to drink.

Do you know if Sandy is male or female? Makes a difference ya know.

Agreed I humbly retract if so

Sandy Crimp wrote:I know that eating less twinkies and drinking less beer is cheaper!

Of course...
Have you checked the price of Twinkies lately??

Full-size vs ultra-light is explained here blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

Going ultra-light and considering BD C4's must be a joke. WC Heliums all the way.

Why do trad people need to go ultra light? Are you climbing at altitude?

superkick wrote:Why do trad people need to go ultra light? Are you climbing at altitude?

Why carry extra weight? If you're buying new gear, why not get the lightest stuff, as long as it's safe, easy to use, durable, and affordable?

Even though it's minutiae, this is a worthy thread.

Pay attention to the small stuff, and the big stuff will take care of itself.

Never once while climbing trad has weight been a limiting factor for me...

shed your own pounds if youre concerned about weight. Youll carry less and its cheaper...

surprised no one has really mentioned ropes? for the longer RR routes, a lot of routes require two ropes to get off of IIRC. Twins/doubles would definitely save alot of weight over 2 full strength ropes. This will also benefit you greatly on wandering alpine routes where full length raps might be the difference between getting caught by a storm on the way down or somewhere on the trail.

superkick wrote:Never once while climbing trad has weight been a limiting factor for me... shed your own pounds if youre concerned about weight. Youll carry less and its cheaper...

It's not so much about the climbing part as it is the grueling approach.