Moore's Wall Guidebook Discussion

Not to be a jerk Ryan , but not all of us have the finacial backing to go to foriegn countries to climb , I somewhat resent your statement . I rely on plasma donation money and overtime to support my climbing occasionally . And I have have a learning disability involing math that stems from a childhood brain injury . So college education is out of the question . I also lost a job to china and another to illegal labor so not all of us are fortunate as you seem to be . However I climb because if I didn't life would not be worth sticking around for . Be thankful you are fortunate enough to have a good job and a family . My point is some of us do have to consider driving expenses and amount of acutual climbing. Reguardless of what anyone else thinks ,does ,says , I will climb wether I have a belayer or not ,and yes I have grounded before so be it I actually hope I die climbing . No offense intended I just ask that you understand climbers come from more then just one place in our society and economy.

I've had the pleasure of meeting and climbing with both Ryan and Erica and I can't say a bad thing about either of them. I can tell you that both appreciate climbing immensely, despite their differing opinions on this topic. Both of them have a passion for climbing, as you and many of us do, Mark. I can also tell you that Ryan is far from what you may believe. Unless you won the lottery recently, Ryan? Mark, look around these forums or ask around. I think you're just getting caught up in this thread. In the end, these two people probably have a lot in common when it comes to climbing. It just so happens that this topic isn't one of them.

Yawn!!! Do your thing Erica...there's a lot of folks supporting you and only a few squeaky wheels that wont stop squeaking. If you crave "adventure", just don't buy the guide!

I beleive I have meet her at pilot last spring as well the owner of MistyMountian they were extremely cool in person . I would say most of the climbers I have meet in Nc I useually get along with quite well . I do think the internet in general gives birth to alot of misunderstanding or misinterpretation at times which can stirr up opinions pretty easily . have a good christmas ,and a good season wish yall the best .

Javi, thanks for the kind words. Wish I was around to climb with you guys. I haven't had a core group of climbing buddies in NC for a very long time. Would have liked to be more involved with you all, but that is not the way life went. Maybe in the future...

mark bowyer wrote:Not to be a jerk Ryan , but not all of us have the finacial backing to go to foriegn countries to climb , I somewhat resent your statement . I rely on plasma donation money and overtime to support my climbing occasionally . And I have have a learning disability involing math that stems from a childhood brain injury . So college education is out of the question . I also lost a job to china and another to illegal labor so not all of us are fortunate as you seem to be . However I climb because if I didn't life would not be worth sticking around for . Be thankful you are fortunate enough to have a good job and a family . My point is some of us do have to consider driving expenses and amount of acutual climbing. Reguardless of what anyone else thinks ,does ,says , I will climb wether I have a belayer or not ,and yes I have grounded before so be it I actually hope I die climbing . No offense intended I just ask that you understand climbers come from more then just one place in our society and economy.

Mark,

I am sorry to hear that you have a hard time getting out to climb. I understand your frustration. Take a look at petrol prices in the UK compared to the US.

Regardless of what kind of financial situation you might think I'm in, I'd say a pretty large percentage of all climbers have to think very hard about their travel expenses, myself included. And I certainly don't have any form of financial backing other than the money I've earned through my own hard work so please don't think that it's any easier for me than it is anyone else.

The difference is, some of us value the mishaps and the getting lost part just as much as we value the climbing. If, in fact, you are so in love with climbing that you hope to die doing it, then I would think you'd understand exactly what I mean. If that is not the case, and you are only worried about how many pitches you can get up and descend without any confusion, then I suggest you re-examine what it is you love so much about climbing and try and find places that you can do exactly that.

Regarding the book - I've made it known that I don't think we need one. I've also conceded that it is probably not going to cause any real harm to Moore's Wall. If I thought it would, I'd be doing a lot more than bitching about it on the internet. And I'm certainly not in the "adventure" camp. I am not naive enough to think that I'm having some grand adventure every time I climb at Moore's. Hell, I go there to redpoint. Not much adventure left for me there. But becoming that familiar with the place WAS a grand adventure and I think a new book filled with glossy photos and detailed instructions of how to navigate the crag may take that adventure away from the next generation of climbers. They'd be better off learning through experience, not a book. Something we've all said here on MP.

I'm not out to get Erica. She knows that. We've met at least once and I know how nice of a person she is and how passionate she is about NC climbing. She must have known what would happen when she decided to write this book. In fact, I'm sure she appreciates some honest feedback and opposition. I think she'd tell you that it would have felt a little strange had she not received some opposition.

As I said up thread, I'm sure the book will be of very high quality and I do not intend to cause any trouble when it comes out. I have not and will not attack Erica as a person or an author. But please don't expect me to stop being the "squeaky wheel." I haven't changed my mind. We don't need another guidebook to Moore's Wall.

If you guys like getting lost and bushwhacking around so much then dont buy a fucking guidebook. Print out some of the mountainproject.com pages and go for it.

A guidebook should tell you how to get to the climb easily, what else am I paying $40 for? I like road trips too for the sense of adventure but I dont purposely buy shitty maps just so that I can get lost. What a dumb idea.

Either way I am not afraid to admit that I hate going to a new area and bush whacking around for an hour cause the guidebook sucks. Sorry but I am not a fucking bum like a lot of you on here. I work full time and am in school full time, I only get a few climbing trips a year and when I go on a climbing trip I want to spend it climbing(and adventuring on the rock) not walking around the bushes with a useless $40 book i just b ought. Who are you dumbasses?

I think Ted has is on point ! You guys bicker too much . If this represents how most of the users of the site are ,then I'm canceling my account. I'll stick with the people I actually meet outdoors . Oh and yes I did read some of the previous pages but its soo long its like a novel and impossible to keep up with . I think this is a great time to leave the conversation ,besides I have some turkeys to go hunt ;)

Ok so I have to step in, I hear a lot of you talking about you don't get time to climb and you want more pitches when you do. If you really love climbing that much you will make a life style change. What I worry about with Moores is access, the last thing we need is more traffic coming out and impacting the environment or trying to stick in bolts, add anchors, or try and change the descents in anyway. Maybe less time spent on mountain project and more time training would allow you to get in more pitches.

Jake I really appreciate your respectful way of conversing about this topic (and others in the past). I think you were right on for calling out a few randoms who weren't at all respectful and really have no idea what is going on in here anyway.

I think at first people like me were worried about the new book bringing "gumby hordes" but the more I've thought about it and talked about it I realize that this is not going to happen. My point has mostly been that the current guides are pretty good. Some people seem to get the idea that I like bushwhacking around for hours on end. Thing is, I NEVER had to do that at Moore's. The info that is currently available is good enough to keep me from having to do that. The place that could really use a new guide? Linville Gorge!

Anyways, the main reason I replied to this thread AGAIN was to say thanks for your respectful and well thought out responses.

I also wanted to give you a heads up: While I know the last paragraph of your response to Rob wasn't directed at him, you picked the wrong person to talk to about patriotism and hard work. The guy put his life on the line for us in the Army for a big chunk of his adult life, and has worked relentlessly to acquire the skills he needs to have a great career as an engineer. On top of that, he is the most psyched climber I've ever met and probably (definitely) climbs at Moore's more than any of us do.

I know you didn't mean any harm to him, but I wanted to say a few things about Rob because I know he won't do it himself.

Now I'm going back to work (yes I do work). It's the busiest day of the year and time to make some money!

I take no offense to anybody's post, I love you all! Climbers of all grades, types, and styles. Ryan Williams is one of the coolest men I hav ever met in my life and I still await the day he returns to NC. You guys have to understand Moores is simply just Moores. Nothing will ever be done there without controversy and argument. I think very highly of all of you that are posting and im glad to see such an interest in climbing and it's culture. Moores is sick, bottom line...

P.S.
I have dug a trench across the approach trail filled with snakes, fire, and A.I.D.S.

I dont think it is allowed on mountain project for you guys to break the conversation down into a "I respect your viewpoint" ending. Impossible!!!

:P

Why is it that unless your lost, scared, dirty, poor and/or risking your life it's not worth climbing??? In North Carolina that is. I have been climbing over twenty years, in just as many states and a few countries, here in NC climbing has a terrible rap thanks too a few who are snobs about the experience (Administrators especially it seems). The first guideline here, on MP is to not be a jerk, I believe that includes degrading others choices and experiences (my self included). Sure other locations are talked about in various guide books, some or which are pathetically written. If you really are that badass to think getting lost and into precarious situations in the only way to climb why are you even here talking about a guide in the first place? Go climb something

Ryan this is not about being badass or not, its simply about keeping a special way of climbing preserved for future generations. It is important for everybody to have a place to climb a certain way. If you would like family friendly moderate climbing that there are places for you to go, pilot, etc...

However if it important for everybody to have a place to climb different styles so some places such as moore's need to be there for climbers who enjoy that type of climbing.

Just read through all these comments to find out there still is not a bouldering guide for stone mountain? How the fuck am I gonna find the north side boulders?eh I bumped this thread, bitch.

There aren't any boulders at the north side of Stone to speak of. There are a couple along the road on the drive in though. They apparently used to boulder on them way back when camping was allowed along the road.

nbrown wrote:There aren't any boulders at the north side of Stone to speak of. There are a couple along the road on the drive in though. They apparently used to boulder on them way back when camping was allowed along the road.

He probably means these:

http://www.cruxn.com/rolling-stone/

Any ideas?

Those are the ones, where the fuck are they?