Bolting "ethics"

TRmasta wrote:OK, lets see what we can all agree on. I'll start. -anchors at every heavily used TR spot

ok i'll add...

retro bolt all the unprotected classic hard lines like volcanic eruption.

thefish wrote: ok i'll add... retro bolt all the unprotected classic hard lines like volcanic eruption.

would it be retro if the face was never bolted to begin with?

change a move or two on the climb and claim an FA, how else did KN find 40 routes on a crag as small as the Firewall?

TRmasta wrote:OK, lets see what we can all agree on. I'll start. -anchors at every heavily used TR spot

Nothing manmade at the crag - ever. No conveniences. No trails, no parking, no guidebooks, no rescue services. Would probably solve the overuse/erosion problems faster then anything else.

thefish wrote:"If you think differently, I have a test for you: What was the last hard (notable or not) FA that was put up in Central Conn (not at the fire wall)? What publications covered it? In what year was the first 5.14 trad or sport lead in central CT and how many repeats does it have? What top climbers have travel to CT to try this test piece? I think the point has been made no?" I don't think there are any potential 5.14s in central CT if there are let me know. There have been several very hard boulder problems put up. One very recently.

You passed the test... there are projects out there but no sends. Always looking for a partner in the SW/NW CT area... I got a few lines that need some bolts and I have land owner permission.

anyone arguing overuse at ct crags is a joke.

unless theyre talking about the overuse by teenagers throwing beer bottles off the cliff at pinnacle

Don't forget the occasional "long island white fish" that can be found at the bases as well.

there is only one overused route in CT and we all know its name

mitchy wrote:Don't forget the occasional "long island white fish" that can be found at the bases as well.

usually at the trailhead parking spot

And you put a tree on your state quarter....

hahahahahahah

I grew up in Southington CT climbing the rocks of Ragged Mountain. I recently went back for a family visit and climbed at both Ragged and Pinnacle and noticed there was more vegetation on top of Ragged now then when I grew up. The real problem I saw was graffiti, trash and broken glass. The trees all seemed just fine. I feel people are just using the trees as an excuse to put their mark of bolting on CT climbing. There are sport climbing crags in CT but they are not every crag. CT is one of the most densely populated areas in the country and not every one going to these crags goes to rock climb. The areas get used a ton by climbers and non climbers. Both effecting vegetation.
The bolting issue in CT is about land ownership. Unlike the West the land it CT is owned by mostly private people or the water company. You have to respect the land owners and what they want. CT is lucky it has what it has. If you want to bolt it just buy a crag-I think Pinnacle is for sale

Trees ARE killed by over use.

jason malczyk wrote:I grew up in Southington CT climbing the rocks of Ragged Mountain. I recently went back for a family visit and climbed at both Ragged and Pinnacle and noticed there was more vegetation on top of Ragged now then when I grew up. The real problem I saw was graffiti, trash and broken glass. The trees all seemed just fine. I feel people are just using the trees as an excuse to put their mark of bolting on CT climbing. There are sport climbing crags in CT but they are not every crag. CT is one of the most densely populated areas in the country and not every one going to these crags goes to rock climb. The areas get used a ton by climbers and non climbers. Both effecting vegetation. The bolting issue in CT is about land ownership. Unlike the West the land it CT is owned by mostly private people or the water company. You have to respect the land owners and what they want. CT is lucky it has what it has. If you want to bolt it just buy a crag-I think Pinnacle is for sale

this is almost a conspiracy theory

jason malczyk wrote:I grew up in Southington CT climbing the rocks of Ragged Mountain. I recently went back for a family visit and climbed at both Ragged and Pinnacle and noticed there was more vegetation on top of Ragged now then when I grew up. The real problem I saw was graffiti, trash and broken glass. The trees all seemed just fine. I feel people are just using the trees as an excuse to put their mark of bolting on CT climbing. There are sport climbing crags in CT but they are not every crag. CT is one of the most densely populated areas in the country and not every one going to these crags goes to rock climb. The areas get used a ton by climbers and non climbers. Both effecting vegetation. The bolting issue in CT is about land ownership. Unlike the West the land it CT is owned by mostly private people or the water company. You have to respect the land owners and what they want. CT is lucky it has what it has. If you want to bolt it just buy a crag-I think Pinnacle is for sale

Hi Jason - Do you by chance have any photos from when you were growing up? I recently did a pretty thorough inspection of the top of the cliff and I was unable to located any substantial new growth along the RMF cliff top. Most of the trees were either stunted, dying, or in fair condition. There were pronounced climbers trails from the Metacomet trail leading back to most healthy looking tree along the top as well. Were those trails more pronounced back when you visited?Also interested on your take of "more," do you think there are more grasses, trees, or shrubs from back in the day when you used to visit, and if so in what proportion? I know personally I was unable to located any new substatial growth. It's an interesting point that you are making, that despite increased hiking and climbing traffic, that the area seems more vegetated. I have also been told a fire occurred at the top of the cliff. Do you know if your experience is from before or after this fire? Thanks!

jason malczyk wrote: I feel people are just using the trees as an excuse to put their mark of bolting on CT climbing.

Bolting routes and adding route anchors are two separate issues in CT which, at this point, are considered by most to be separate issues. As your statement above stands, your feelings are wrong. People are asking for anchors based on dying trees and negative impacts on cliff top ecology. Some evidence was even provided of a once popular anchor tree at Chatfield Hollow which is now dead. While some bolting issues in CT may be about ownership, your attempt to simplify or generalize the matter does little benefit to those that live in climb in the state.

"As your statement above stands, you're feelings are wrong"

If you're gonna call someone out, at least show him the respect of proper grammar!

Ben Brotelho wrote:"As your statement above stands, you're feelings are wrong" If you're gonna call someone out, at least show him the respect of proper grammar!

Thanks Ben... busy am at work didn't get any coffee. I'm not trying to be mean but yes calling out a very important distinction in how the issue is defined at this point.

CaptainMo wrote:I have also been told a fire occurred at the top of the cliff. Do you know if your experience is from before or after this fire? Thanks!

I remember the fire at the top of Ragged. It was quite a few years ago, IIRC. Not sure when, though. It may have been before RMF. Or there was more than one fire. Honestly, though, I don't remember any permanent damage to trees that you might use as anchors. For time reference, I'm pretty sure that the fire I'm thinking of occurred when the hemlock on Hemlock Groove was still alive and there were still two small trees growing out of the lower crack on Cary Corner.

Interesting point, though. Many of the "anchor" trees at the top of Whitestone in Plymouth are now dead because of a fire (unattended campfire) about 3 years ago.

I've personally put out unattended campfires at the top of Whitestone and Pinnacle on several occasions and helped put out an uncontrolled fire at the base of the main cliff at Ragged. In that case, some idiot had a campfire at the top of the cliff and kicked the hot ashes down.

I have no evidence but I do not believe any of these were campfires started by climbers.

Ya know this has me thinkin... I wonder if there isn't some eager forestry student over at Yale that might be interested in doing an environmental composition survey of the cliff top. It might be a great idea to partner with Yale to get some empirical evidence of what is or isn't ontop of the cliff right now and it's current condition (as defined by an educated person).

I will mention it at the next RMF meeting.