Mental games

Hi guys! I've recently started sport climbing outside and I'm getting really stuck dealing with the mental challenge that comes with it.

For example: The other day I lead a 5.7, seriously easy (I lead 5.11 in the gym) but for some reason I was really terrified. All I could think was, "Oh god don't fall. Oh man, the rope is behind my leg, shit. I'm going to fall and crack my head open and die. Where's the next bolt... just get to the next bolt!" It was really awful! I finished the route and didn't fall but I felt so silly and rather pathetic.

There are so many routes outside I want to climb and I just want to be able to let go and have fun and not psyche myself out all the time.

Does anyone else experience mental stuff like this? What are some ways to overcome it?

mileage - there is no substitute. also wear a helmet if you are worried about falling on easy terrain - falls on easy to moderate routes are way worse than falls on harder routes because there is more to hit.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Rock-Warriors-Way-Training/dp/0974011215/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348695211&sr=8-1&keywords=rock+warriors+way

Get this ^^^^

And yep everyone deals with that. The more you practice and climb you will experience similar feelings, but more focused and on harder climbs. Practice will help you learn to focus more on the moves and less on those energy draining thoughts. Also it's like anything else...some days I crank and am smiling, next day I'm scared and afraid to commit.

When I take time off it's practically like starting over. Andrew said it perfectly.. mileage. And lots of it. Don't take things so hard if you don't perform. Try to leave on a positive note and remind yourself it's just climbing afterall.

Oh and outdoor and indoor have very little in common really. Outdoor is a whole nuther ballgame.

I agree with the previous posts - you really don't want to fall on most 5.7s Its much safer to fall on 10s and above (area dependent) which presents a sad paradox for new climbers. I would recommend warming up by topropping several hard routes, then leading an easy route. That way makes the moves feel easier and boosts your confidence.

The Rock Warriors Way

+1

Thanks for the advice guys! Totally ordered that book. I can't wait to read it... I had a little freak out just now when I found out there is a book on this stuff.. amazing!!! And yeah, I am a pretty strong climber physically, totally crush 5.11's and easy 5.12's in the gym, so I've just been a little down on myself that I hardly make it up a 5.7 outside. Haha! It's actually pretty funny now that I think about it...

lady jane wrote:I am a pretty strong climber physically, totally crush 5.11's and easy 5.12's in the gym, so I've just been a little down on myself that I hardly make it up a 5.7 outside.

The types of climbing that you'll find outside are much more diverse than what you'll find in the gym, especially when you're talking about leading: every gym that I've been to limits their lead climbing areas to overhung walls because falling into air is safest. Not only that, but most gyms don't have any sort of crack climbing, and nothing in the gym can really train you for "real" slab climbing.

I'd say I'm an 11+ lead climber in the gym. Outside, 5.10 slab freaks me out, 5.9 bulging hand cracks give me a run for my money, and 5.8 offwidth confuses the shit out of me. Even if I'm just on top rope. On the other hand, when I first climbed on vertical limestone a few weeks back, the similarities to the gym had me onsighting an 11d on lead.

And as others have said, easier climbs often have gnarlier falls. I usually feel much more comfortable leading a vertical 5.11 than a less-than-vertical or ledgy 5.7.

Don't worry about the grade, just have fun.

Ian Stewart wrote:Don't worry about the grade, just have fun.

Yes!!! Thank you!

Plan a two or three day trip to Shelf Road. Shelf Road is kind of like an outdoor climbing gym!

lady jane wrote:(I lead 5.11 in the gym)

That is the problem. Rating in the gym is crap. The holds are Made and placed in comfortable (or uncomfortable) positions. You cannot honestly say that a "5.11 inside" is equivalent to a 5.11 at Eldo or a 5.11 at monastery. Inside should be rated as Beginner, Intermediate, or advanced/hard. I am tired of people comparing some of my favorite climbs outside to climbs inside, on a route that is color coordinated. It pisses me off to hear the people next to me discuss putting tape on the holds (we are outside mind you) so that they can tell where to go (this actually happened).

I once saw an outside climb with a hold screwed into the rock. I feel like a little piece of me died when I saw this.

Climb outside as much as possible. Confidence will come.

some places outdoors arent that different in style or grading than from the gym ... others are very much so ... the gym prepares you for a certain style of climbing ... it will however keep you FIT ...

the only way to get better leading outdoors is to keep leading ... leading in the gym will help you, but be a bit more careful as outdoors you need to recognize when the fall is good or not, and whether the gear is good ... and that only comes with knowledge and experience

as others have said it is often "safer" to lead the harder stuff than the easier stuff ... that said get as much mileage on moderates as possible on yr warm ups and cool downs as when you go multi there WILL be moderate ground, much of it you dont want to fall on ... focus on footwork and technique, which is different on more moderate lower angle climbs than harder steeper ones ..,

at the end of the day go out and have fun ... and climb as many styles as possible ...

Anthony Milano wrote:You cannot honestly say that a "5.11 inside" is equivalent to a 5.11 at Eldo or a 5.11 at monastery.

After taking a little over a month off, 3 moderates at the Monastary felt equal to putting my pads into a pencil sharpener.

Anthony Milano wrote: TIt pisses me off to hear the people next to me discuss putting tape on the holds (we are outside mind you) so that they can tell where to go (this actually happened). I once saw an outside climb with a hold screwed into the rock. I feel like a little piece of me died when I saw this.

First off this is crazy because I have also seen holds "bolted" to natural rock. Second, tape is pretty bad. I was embarrassed one time when I heard a girl outside ask her belayer if "nats were on" It really is crazy sometimes.

lol...the tape is a new one for me, though.

Anthony Milano wrote: That is the problem. Rating in the gym is crap. The holds are Made and placed in comfortable (or uncomfortable) positions. You cannot honestly say that a "5.11 inside" is equivalent to a 5.11 at Eldo or a 5.11 at monastery. Inside should be rated as Beginner, Intermediate, or advanced/hard. I am tired of people comparing some of my favorite climbs outside to climbs inside, on a route that is color coordinated. It pisses me off to hear the people next to me discuss putting tape on the holds (we are outside mind you) so that they can tell where to go (this actually happened). I once saw an outside climb with a hold screwed into the rock. I feel like a little piece of me died when I saw this. Climb outside as much as possible. Confidence will come.

I call BS on this post and this whole attitude.

Ratings inside are just as legitimate as outside. You can't honestly say a 5.11 at Eldo is equivalent to a 5.11 at the Monastery or a 5.11 at Rifle or a 5.11 slab in the Platte. Different places, different styles. Usually not too hard to figure out. It's not that hard either to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges and still refrain from making value judgments about which fruit is 'really' a fruit or which climb is 'really' a climb.

As for color coordination, most of those favorite outside routes of yours are just as color coded as anything inside- just all color coded white.

Bolt on holds appear at various crags every once in a while but typically don't last long. The proponents think they are better than outright manufactured holds, which is probably true. But most folks share your dislike of them and the ensuing controversy leads to their removal.

If jane is who I think she is, she's an excellent climber who will adapt quickly to the outside. Most of the folks I've seen transition from inside to outside do well once they learn to read the routes (natural stone being somewhat different from the plastic holds they have gotten to know) and once they figure out how to handle 'no fall zones.'

Most outside climbers who move inside do well too, once they get over their embarrasment about being relatively weak, start getting strong by trying hard, and drop their ridiculous posturing about what is 'real' climbing.

To return to the OP's concern-

Jane, you might want to try just getting on some harder routes, 10's and 11's, maybe even some 12s. I think they will seem more familiar than 7s. If you need some suggested routes, just ask.

You might also learn more quickly if you decide ahead of time that you are NOT specifically trying to onsight anything, so you can hangdog whenever you feel like it. You will probably learn more quickly if you focus on process, experimentation and technique rather than just getting up routes.

Outside you usually have to spend more time planning out your moves and especially the clip stances. Like Andrew said, there's no substitute for mileage. Climb with people who climb hard, and tr/follow up the routes so you have to unclip. This is a cheap way to get a feel for strategizing stances. A gym tendancy is to move up really fast b/c you see exactly what you are gunning for; but with rock moving up quickly w/out a clear objective can easily lead to a feeling of insecurity b/c you will start to come upon sucker holds. A poor man's temporary warrior way substitute is to take a few drops from 2-3 bolts high (never the 1st bolt); try to get them to be at least 4-5 feet but you have to be in safe-fall terrain. Where you climb has a lot to do with how secure you feel. I'll bet that 5.7 was at Table, the greasy factor there adds some pucker to leading. Watch out for 'old school' routes like a lot at Shelf. Try the moderate circuit at the Lower West Side of Devils Head, the new Urban Alpine Crag in Deer Creek Canyon or even Castlewood to get some well-bolted mileage in.

http://warriorsway.com/

Could always get someone to clip the first two bolts for you. That way you are pretty safe if you drop on the hard routes. When I moved outside from the gym I was petrified to push myself on the top rope that I set. But now I'm pretty comfortable with going as hard as I can on sport climbs. It's just like everyone else has said, mileage.

Mark E Dixon wrote: I call BS on this post and this whole attitude. Ratings inside are just as legitimate as outside.

Mark,

I would have to agree with you on this one. I started climbing in the gym and was climbing at about the 5.13 level before I even went outside. I remember going out and getting on a 5.13 and being shocked at how huge the holds were. Routes in the gym were much harder, just no fear factor.

Eric

I started climbing in the gym and was climbing 5.11+ routes and ascend V6 in the boulder area before attempting to go outside. I studied hard many books on proper anchoring and learned a lot from outdoor climbers as well. Now im leading 5.10's outoor as 5.11 outdoor is far too difficult. Gym climbing in my opinion does take a lot of skill no doubt but outdoor was far more difficult... For me.
Gym climbing is a great way to build up strength and technique but overall i believe outdoor climbing is far different. Searching for holds ( not all holds are dusted with white chalk and even some whote chalked areas are useless handholds someone flailed on and off of) and developing a mental stamina are a few of the differences. Like the first comment, its all about mileage when it comes to the mental aspect of it, the more you do it the better youll get. Also, the more knowledge you have the safer youll feel. Read online specs for the gear you own, learn about the bolts used and your confidence will grow. As for drilling artificial handholds in natural rock, youre retarded, build a ladder if you cant finish the route and climb that, youre a construction worker not a climber, retire.

Meh - gym climbing doesn't count. I think I fall leading most 5.9s there.

OP - welcome to climbing.

Forget numbers, have fun outdoors on real rock.

^ 5.fun

lady jane wrote:Hi guys! I've recently started sport climbing outside and I'm getting really stuck dealing with the mental challenge that comes with it. For example: The other day I lead a 5.7, seriously easy (I lead 5.11 in the gym) but for some reason I was really terrified. All I could think was, "Oh god don't fall. Oh man, the rope is behind my leg, shit. I'm going to fall and crack my head open and die. Where's the next bolt... just get to the next bolt!" It was really awful! I finished the route and didn't fall but I felt so silly and rather pathetic. There are so many routes outside I want to climb and I just want to be able to let go and have fun and not psyche myself out all the time. Does anyone else experience mental stuff like this? What are some ways to overcome it?

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I was scared at the start of any multi-pitch or single pitch route for years and still am often nervous on the the first lead of the day; doesn't matter how close to my limit the lead is. I'll mention I am nervous to my belayer. Admitting that seems to help me.

After you get the safety issues and the leading mechanics competently then focus on the climb. Until the safety and mechanics are instinctive you will always be climbing with a "technical handicap".

As some have said in the thread, Rock Warriors Way podcasts and mileage help, but eventually you will have to find some inner mental strength on your own. Talking about silly and pathetic; those are just wasteful emotions. Did you do the best you could do in that moment?

You did.

Would a second lap have been a good thing to do? I am guessing so.

Grab a little self esteem in both hands and anyone who is bothered you "gumbied" up some easy route is not someone you want to be climbing with for long.

Don't neglect "gathering" information about the climb or pitch you are going to lead. Asking a climber whose judgement you respect or even someone who just did the climb is acceptable style since you are new and learning. I like to "gather" information well in advance so my subconscious has time to process it but whatever works for you. I'd advise against random gathering just before leading as that can really prejudice your approach to the climb. For instance if someone is struggling with your prospective line while you wait in queue, I'll often turn away so I don't see the thrutching action. Conversely if someone is "floating", I'll watch to discern their rhythm at least, where they rested and where they pushed through, stances for clipping and so forth.

This was posted elsewhere in the forums: google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CDgQtwIwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX-G2NBkpTbY&ei=_JJkUNahHfTW2wX9xICQBQ&usg=AFQjCNGxzU8d9-iHIFmS5wJvtgs8mXWJvg

Here is another good link: youtube.com/watch?v=YxRpeFQ…;feature=related

One possible technique to knowing in your mind when you should and should not be on a single pitch route is to top rope it and see if you legitimately fall off. If you can follow and not fall or take any tension then you can likely lead it.

That's easy to say and (if you can climb the line on top rope) for you physically possible, but so many mental factors are in play.

Some of those you can adjust. Remember, even if the gym climbs and outside climbs are rated equal the gym climbs are constructs of someone's route building skills and don't strictly translate to outside.

In the gym practice your down climbing skills. This will allow you to return to a rest position outside.

Reduce the size of your climbing group to you and one partner.

Try climbing with females only; see if that makes a difference.

Try climbing with someone who could not lead the line you've chosen so if it gets done you are doing it.

Go to some outside climb where you can safely practice falling off safely. Using a non-lead line (if you have one), top rope it and you and your partner fall off...longer and longer distances and also from a sideways position where you might swing. The Rock Warriors seminars deal with falling, but you can duplicate that. Learn to evaluate when it is safe or not safe to fall. Once you can handle falling on top rope, time to fall on lead. Be sure you read up on fall factors (prior to practice) so you don't accidentally trash your lead line.

I like a few moments for meditation (usually while racking up) before casting off on lead. So if I'm climbing with a regular partner I ask them to flake out the line, prepare the belay position...whatever needs doing for logistics and safety prior to my lead. And no excess communication and no negative input; i.e. how someone cratered on the lead you are about to do.

I don't know how you address goal achievement in your life, whether you set written down benchmarks or whatever...but the practice which works for you in other areas of your life should work for getting better at climbing outside. For instance, depending on your personality, "mindful distraction" can work. That is a minipod player with a jack in your ear and your motivational music.

You already know you can "crush" in the gym. Translate those strengths (for instance your contact strength) to climbing outside and utilize your gym techniques whenever you recognize a familiar sequence. One example is to tell yourself while at a stance and eying the next set of holds: "I can absolutely stick to that hold. There is no way I am coming off."

Another example might be as you face some sequence to the next bolt to say: "I am flexible enough to do the move in this way" and visualize yourself doing the move. See the holds and WAIT for the moment, then go without hesitation to the next rest position.

Since you're coming outside for the first time your progress to confidence will be more rapid if you realize and verbally acknowledge to your partner every route you get on outside is "practice". You already know you can climb harder grades inside. Take the pressure off yourself and practice to be as perfect as possible in execution every-time. Whether you get to the anchors is just "icing" for now.

Don't forget to smile, breathe and treat yourself for a job well done.