Best Anchor Chain: Metolius PAS vs. Bluewater Titan Loop vs. Sterling Chain Reactor

+1 for the Purcell. I bought a double length Mammut sling and used that for my Purcell. It was really slick at first and the prusik would slide pretty easily, but now that it's lost that factory "sheen" It works great.
On multi-pitch climbs, I'll clove hitch the rope to whatever master point I've made and back it up by clipping either the "top shelf" or most bomber piece with the Purcell.

I would have to check on the strengths but I wouldn't use anything less then a 7mm cord for my Purcell. I'm pretty sure that's just as strOng as a pice of tubular webbing. But again I would have to check. I'm super comfortable with it. I've used it extensively for a couple years now and would never use anything else unless the next "greatest" thing came out. I've used it on hanging belays as well. I don't really think that would be the weak point of the system. Thoughts? I would like other opinions. If there's something I could do better, or easier, I wanna hear about it

Here's another vote for the purcell. Bluewater makes a dynamic nylon cord in varying widths for about 50 cents a foot. Much cheaper (and safer) than a Metolius PAS.

Buff Johnson wrote:I use a PAS, because the others have stupid acronyms.

I'm going to recommend the PAS to a new climbing friend because if it gets in her way she can yell out, "You fucking Piece A Shit!"

+1 Rope, +1 Purcell Prusik. These are the best options.

But to be honest, I just use a nylon daisy chain when I have need of a personal anchor. I know I'm in the minority here, but I have my reasons:
Convenience
1. PAS systems are bulky

2. They are typically shorter than daisy chains.

3. They have fewer adjustment points. I've cleaned more than one stuck cam from an awkward hang where 2" up or down made all the difference.

Safety
4. Nylon is awesome. After seeing all this data on Spectra blowing out with low dynamic loads, I can't bring myself to trust it where I might fall directly on it. The peace of mind is worth the 1oz extra.

6. More failure points in a PAS. 5 or 6 bartacks must all hold, vs 1 in a daisy.

5. This is questionable, but I think blowing pockets in a daisy could give you some screamer-like impact force reduction in a high FF fall.

6. The only danger from using a nylon daisy over a PAS comes from using it wrong. Never clip into more than one loop. I prefer to use my brain over trusting a sketchier material.

Now realistically, those bartacks (edit: on the PAS) are not going to fail. And I'll bet that the dynamic properties of your body and harness would prevent you from being able to snap a spectra sling by falling onto it (hope your anchor is bomber, and... ouch). But my daisy is slightly better.

Toby--what do you think that purcell, now girth-hitched, has for a breaking strength? It's certainly not 12.5kn when knotted...far less. Dunno, a factor 2, 185 lb guy onto his purcell might be closer than you want to be...will it hold? Probably, due to "goosh" in a climber's body (which also results in injury), BUT calling it "plenty bomber" might not be totally accurate.

Another cool product is that sewn Beal tether. It's dynamic rope, sewn at either end into a loop--pretty cool, though not as adjustable as the purcell. I like the purcell, don't get me wrong...but a single strand of cord just isn't good enough for me...though the mammut stuff is pretty sweet.

RC

two nylon runners girth hitched to your harness and two lockers. don't waste your cash on gimmicks.

Best material for personal anchor is your rope. Not so easy to use when coming down. The Beal personal anchor lanyards can take a factor 2 fall and make belaying and repelling more comfortable. Made from low-impact force dynamic rope. Certified as a sling at 22kN. I picked up one of these in Chamonix. I have seen them in the US now. The safest way to go that I have seen.

http://bealplanet.com/sport/anglais/page-longes.php#dynaconnexion

Newton wrote:...Safety 4. Nylon is awesome. After seeing all this data on Spectra blowing out with low dynamic loads, I can't bring myself to trust it where I might fall directly on it. The peace of mind is worth the 1oz extra. 6. More failure points in a PAS. 5 or 6 bartacks must all hold, vs 1 in a daisy. 5. This is questionable, but I think blowing pockets in a daisy could give you some screamer-like impact force reduction in a high FF fall. 6. The only danger from using a nylon daisy over a PAS comes from using it wrong. Never clip into more than one loop. I prefer to use my brain over trusting a sketchier material. Now realistically, those bartacks are not going to fail. And I'll bet that the dynamic properties of your body and harness would prevent you from being able to snap a spectra sling by falling onto it (hope your anchor is bomber, and... ouch). But my daisy is slightly better.

Agree about nylon, the stuff's great. The item about points of failure, though...the PAS and most other anchor chains are rated to full strength (22 kn) whereas the individual pockets on a daisy will usually blow out after 2-4 kn. This is fine if you want your tether to be a screamer if you drop onto it, but it definitely doesn't mean a daisy is less likely to fail.

The absolute best solution is to not let slack build up in your anchor tether whatever the material and whether it's a sling or the rope. FF issue solved. Your brain is the best piece of safety equipment you have.

Newton wrote:4. Nylon is awesome. After seeing all this data on Spectra blowing out with low dynamic loads, I can't bring myself to trust it where I might fall directly on it. The peace of mind is worth the 1oz extra.

I'm really am glad all that data has been put out for us to peruse over the past year or so...but oh man has it led to some completely unnecessary freaking out about spectra slings.

It is not necessary to be so concerned about spectra. Period. It IS good to understand the strengths and weaknesses of different materials and anchor setups...but sheesh...

A human being/body simply would not be ABLE to break a Spectra sling before doing serious damage to their body. SERIOUS damage. And you'd do some serious damage to your body if you tried the same ridiculous shenanigans on a nylon sling too.

It's simple, avoid putting yourself in situations where you might fall directly onto a sling...whether it's nylon or spectra. Every climber should know this.

one other advantage of those multi ring PAS style slings is that they are very easy to adjust to the optimum length simply by clipping another loop ... my belief is that the best way to prevent a "factor ooopsies" fall on a sling is to have a comfortable stance rather than being stuck with the sling length or the overhand knot you tie in the middle ....

of course you could tie multiple overhand knots in a nylon sling ... and a purcell prussik is adjustable, though i do find they sometimes slip or the prussik can be hard to loosen ...

just dont be one of those people who run around saying everyone with a daisy/PAS/etc ... is the walking dead ;)

bevans wrote: I'm really am glad all that data has been put out for us to peruse over the past year or so...but oh man has it led to some completely unnecessary freaking out about spectra slings.

Man, where were you the last 7 years... I've been unnecessarily freaking out about Spectra ever since I was tempted by the svelte siren song of those first Mammut 8mm slings in like 2005. The data has been there, if one was curious/paranoid enough to look.

bevans wrote:It is not necessary to be so concerned about spectra... A human being/body simply would not be ABLE to break a Spectra sling before doing serious damage to their body. SERIOUS damage.

You know I said as much in my earlier post... but I'm not really that sure. I've never seen tests on how much force our bodies can put on an anchor before we get messed up. Could be that we can sustain 15kN for that tiny fraction of a second that it takes the spectra to snap. Plus, I'd rather be mangled and alive hanging from nylon than mangled and dead 400ft down cause my sling did SERIOUS damage to me and broke.

The bottom line for me: I've used spectra for a personal anchor, and found myself worrying about shock loading every time I had to step up a foot to make room for a partner, or when I wondered if that nut in my hanging belay anchor might pop and drop me 6" (you don't always have that extra 3' of rope to hitch in with). It's not the safety per se; either the spectra is safe enough or I can work around the problem. It's more my own feeling of anxiety and a loss of convenience.

I love my spectra slings, but I only use them for clipping the rope to pro. That's it. The stuff is just too limited: doesn't last very long, hates shock load, won't take a knot safely, etc.

JesseT wrote: The item about points of failure, though...the PAS and most other anchor chains are rated to full strength (22 kn) whereas the individual pockets on a daisy will usually blow out after 2-4 kn. This is fine if you want your tether to be a screamer if you drop onto it, but it definitely doesn't mean a daisy is less likely to fail.

Yes, the item about points of failure is ridiculous; I shouldn't have even brought it up. But it's still correct (as long as failure means sling breaking and dropping you, not a merely inconvenient pocket failure). If one in a million full strength bar tacks fails, you take a that chance six times on a PAS vs once on a Daisy.

And since the daisy is also rated 22kN end to end, if the pockets blowing really do act like screamers, it would be less likely to fail (again, meaning breaking completely). I guess this is a big "if". I'd really like to see some tests on daisies to see if they really can limit loads, or whether the opposite is true and you get a progressive series of bad shock loads, or if the pocket stitching somehow weakens the sling material. After all, I am betting my safety on them not being significantly weakened end to end if you are clipped into a pocket.

on personal anchors. Nylon daisies are safe. The PAS won't break, but had nasty high impact forces. Purcell is safe and has low impact forces. Spectra daisies are a disaster. Looks like one of them blew out at the girth hitch before the bartacks even had a chance to go.

With regard to using a daisy chain, this is an informative piece. Be sure to watch the included video:

blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

Nothing personal Newton. If you are happier with nylon then more power to you.

Have used everything Purcel,daisy, slings/draws, but I just got a PAS because i have partners who use it. Just seems handy and super confidence inspiring! Percel seemed like a pia to me , I think it's the only way to go for rescue work, but not for me for sport climbing -where i plan to use the PAS the most.

coppolillo wrote:Toby--what do you think that purcell, now girth-hitched, has for a breaking strength? It's certainly not 12.5kn when knotted...far less. Dunno, a factor 2, 185 lb guy onto his purcell might be closer than you want to be...will it hold? Probably, due to "goosh" in a climber's body (which also results in injury), BUT calling it "plenty bomber" might not be totally accurate. Another cool product is that sewn Beal tether. It's dynamic rope, sewn at either end into a loop--pretty cool, though not as adjustable as the purcell. I like the purcell, don't get me wrong...but a single strand of cord just isn't good enough for me...though the mammut stuff is pretty sweet. RC

Because we're using LOOPS of cord, the breaking strength of the loop is 25 kn. This is roughly triple what you expect to experience in a lead fall situation, and the cord is more dynamic than nylon webbing to boot. Does a girth hitch reduce the strength a little? Sure. It's a big girth hitch though if it's going through both your tie in points, so probably not by as much as, say, a welded overhand knot in webbing.

Even if the girth hitch reduces the strength of the cord by 30%, we're still talking 17.5 kn*. That's more than any of your trad gear is rated to.

If you're seriously worried about your tether to the anchor failing, then I think you're missing the mark. Virtually any non-boneheaded tether you use will work fine. You're far, far more likely to get injured in a lead fall, forget to clip in to the anchor correctly, rap off the end of your lines, whatever, than to have your tether break apart because you sat back onto it a little too hard.

I second what Ryan has been saying: don't take factor 2 falls onto your anchor when tether in via short pieces of rope, nylon, or cord. Just don't. You can say, "oh, but a purcell prusik won't hold up well if you take a factor 2 fall" and although I don't agree, the forces involved can be incredibly high. There's just not enough dynamic give in the system at that point. So if you think the purcell is problematic in that situation, ok, but the issue isn't the purcell--any tether would have the same problem. The issue is that situation.

• http://www.climerware.com/knot5.htm

Those results are for girth hitching two slings together, which I think is a far worse situation than girth hitching a loop of cord to your tie-in points. However, I'll use their 70% reduction in strength as a worst-case estimate.

bevans wrote: It's simple, avoid putting yourself in situations where you might fall directly onto a sling...whether it's nylon or spectra. Every climber should know this.

There are A LOT of things that every climber should know... most climbers don't know half of them.

yawn. Keep it simple, stupid. Just use extendable slings or quickdraws.