Grivel G14 Help

Cramp-o-Matic vs. New Matic?
I am planning on getting a pair of Grivel G14's to match with a pair of Scarpa Invernos. The only differece I can tell between the two is the front toe bail. I know the Cramp-O-Matic will work, but I am considering the New Matic version because it should be more suited to different boots. Does anyone have any experience with the New Matic's? Do they secure to the boot as well as the steel?

Thanks

Unless you are climbing WI4, 5 and/or 6, the new matics will be all you need for alpine and lower grade ice. You would never know the difference. If you want to progress into leading WI 4 and above, with this particular purchase, you will prefer the full crampon for an even more secure feel and fit. Good Luck.

Thanks. Make me feel better about my choice. I have never been let down with Grivel's quality. Unless someone posts with a horror story about the Nem Matics......Daddy's gettin a new pair of pons!

Burd wrote:Cramp-o-Matic vs. New Matic? I am planning on getting a pair of Grivel G14's to match with a pair of Scarpa Invernos. The only differece I can tell between the two is the front toe bail. I know the Cramp-O-Matic will work, but I am considering the New Matic version because it should be more suited to different boots. Does anyone have any experience with the New Matic's? Do they secure to the boot as well as the steel? Thanks

I have both. Can't tell any difference when climbing, so I would have to disagree with the advice given previously. If anything, the new matic feels more solid when front pointing since there isn't any give in a springy front bail. I've led wi5 with both, and I fail to understand the previously stated relationship between the binding and route difficulty.

I wonder if this guy knew he couldn't climb WI4 and up in New Matics?

I actually have climbed WI 6 on occasion and a considerable amount of WI 5....the full bail does offer a bit more stability....a novice or less experienced climber would not even notice it in my opinion. You kind of have to be on the sharp end of the rope.

Dow Williams wrote:I actually have climbed WI 6 on occasion and a considerable amount of WI 5....the full bail does offer a bit more stability....a novice or less experienced climber would not even notice it in my opinion. You kind of have to be on the sharp end of the rope.

Been there. You don't know what you are talking about.

The New Matic system works well and is secure. Just make sure you don't let the strap loose, lest you should lose a crampon. It has happened to me. I had intentionally loosened the strap once on easy terrain to relieve pressure on an ankle. Soon after that, I simply stepped out of that crampon. I've recently seen it happen to a friend in similar conditions.

The Cramp-o-Matic provides a stiffer connection between boot and crampon. It is more precise and energy efficient. With those two Grivel bindings, there isn't much difference in the time it takes to put on or take off your crampons.

I think the decision depends on what boots and other crampons you have and what usages you anticipate. If you have other boots without front welt, then it makes sense to buy the New Matic version. If you have, or plan to have, more than one pair of crampons, go for one of one type and one of the other or even buy a pair of strap-on bindings that may even fit approach shoes in a pinch.

Copperhead wrote: Been there. You don't know what you are talking about.

Of course we don't know that do we? Quite possible you are just this guy.

Dow Williams wrote: Of course we don't know that do we? Quite possible you are just this guy.

Dude, turn off your web cam, we don't need to see that sit.

I have "new-matic" style sabertooths, and while they have their uses, they are not my preference.

I have fairly small feet, (mens 8), and the toe is able to push through the front cradle, especially when kicking hard. This should be a minor inconvenience, but when leading hard, brittle ice, my toe will entirely obscure the frontpoints, forcing me to climb with my secondary points until I re-adjust my crampons. Very scary.

I still use my sabertooths in the summer on neve, but never on waterfall ice again.

Phillip

Dobson wrote:I have "new-matic" style sabertooths, and while they have their uses, they are not my preference. I have fairly small feet, (mens 8), and the toe is able to push through the front cradle, especially when kicking hard. This should be a minor inconvenience, but when leading hard, brittle ice, my toe will entirely obscure the frontpoints, forcing me to climb with my secondary points until I re-adjust my crampons. Very scary. I still use my sabertooths in the summer on neve, but never on waterfall ice again. Phillip

That's a boot fit or adjustment issue. The upright tabs should prevent the boot from sliding forward. If your boot is banging out the front of the crampon then you're doin' it wrong.

It's absolutely a fit issue. I notice it most often when climbing in my Garmont Towers (the ones I need a new-matic binding for). It was also very noticeable when the crampons were used on my Mother's Trangos (size 5-ish). These boots have a very narrow toe that is great for rock climbing, but it can be pressed forward between the metal tabs with a strong kick. The Garmonts also have a lot of rocker that likes to lift the toe from the front of the crampon. The only solution I have found is to really crank the strap down (cutting off circulation).

Now those boots are obviously better for summer climbing where I'm rarely going to encounter hard (brittle) ice, so I'm willing to let the issue slide. Unfortunately it has also happened (though with much less frequency) with my plastics (Lowa Civetta) and my Nepal Evos. The crampon fit is correct (metal tabs are snug fore and aft), but the tabs are so far to the outside of the boot that they don't keep the toe in place.

I recommend that if you do have small-ish boots that you check to see that the front tabs fit the toe if you boot well. I'm sure I could modify the tabs for a better fit, but why screw with them? For me it was just much easier to get a pair of wire bindings for hard-ice climbing, and keep the sabertooths for summer.

All good info! Thanks for the help guys.

Dobson wrote:It's absolutely a fit issue. I notice it most often when climbing in my Garmont Towers (the ones I need a new-matic binding for). It was also very noticeable when the crampons were used on my Mother's Trangos (size 5-ish). These boots have a very narrow toe that is great for rock climbing, but it can be pressed forward between the metal tabs with a strong kick. The Garmonts also have a lot of rocker that likes to lift the toe from the front of the crampon. The only solution I have found is to really crank the strap down (cutting off circulation). Now those boots are obviously better for summer climbing where I'm rarely going to encounter hard (brittle) ice, so I'm willing to let the issue slide. Unfortunately it has also happened (though with much less frequency) with my plastics (Lowa Civetta) and my Nepal Evos. The crampon fit is correct (metal tabs are snug fore and aft), but the tabs are so far to the outside of the boot that they don't keep the toe in place. I recommend that if you do have small-ish boots that you check to see that the front tabs fit the toe if you boot well. I'm sure I could modify the tabs for a better fit, but why screw with them? For me it was just much easier to get a pair of wire bindings for hard-ice climbing, and keep the sabertooths for summer.

When using a flexible boot such as a Trango S or Garmont Tower, Blackdiamond recommends a flexible center bar.

The OP might consider the new Petzl Lynx that comes with both wire bails and semi-auto/newmatic top strap.