Climbers in/out of Medical School?

I have some expertise on this topic so I'll offer my thoughts:

Best med schools for climbing definitely are CO and Utah given proximity and variety of rock. I would also vouch for Vanderbilt where I went to med school and caught the bug my fourth year when I had a little more freedom. That's actually what brought me out to
UCHSC for medicine residency because I couldn't imagine being anywhere where I couldn't climb regularly. But I wouldn't count on climbing more than once a week in med school if you actually want to graduate and get a decent residency. Once out here in residency I spent that one day off a week allotted to residents climbing or skiing whenever possible. Not infrequently I worked 120hrs a week in the ICU and spent that one day off thrashing myself all day in clear creek or Eldo just to get my fix. Sometimes I feel like I still haven't recovered from that intense period in my life.

Another surprising contender is UCDavis in Sacramento. 90 miles from Tahoe/Donner, 90 miles from jailhouse and table mtn, 2 hrs from coastal climbing, and 3+ hrs from the Valley. I spent 5 yrs there initially as a hospitalist then as an ID Fellow and probably had my most productive years climbing, that is until the little ones arrived.

Now in private practice and frequently oncall, it ain't easy juggling everything, managing the practice, keeping the wife and kids happy, and sneaking away for my trysts with the rock.

I wouldn't advise becoming a doctor unless you're really committed to healing others. If your passion for climbing supersedes your commitment to medicine then a more logical choice would be nursing, EMT, PA etc. You would have more predictable time off, fewer years of training, and a lot less debt accrued. I have a number of friends who chose nursing for these reasons and are not only satisfied but are truly crushing outside. If however you feel driven to become a doctor then the most climbing friendly fields would be ER medicine, Hospitalist, Radiology or Anesthesiology probably in that order. Subspecialty fields like Dermatology would eventually allow for climbing flexibility but you would have be top of your class to get these very competitive residencies often with little control of where you end up matching. Climbing would probably have to take a backseat for quite some time. Though I'll admit Steve Hong certainly managed pretty well.

Good luck and feel free to shoot me an email.

Man, it's like a reunion in here. Hey Tom, how's Lander? Do you miss the super "code Purple" nothing "outside the box", rollover, ejected, 10 people from a pick-up truck near Chinle, what is that off service psychiatry interns primary language, Friday night shankfest shifts? Rob, sorry we didn't overlap at Vandy (MD/PhD '94). I was just back for a visit with my applicant niece and remain impressed by what a great training experience that was. UCDavis is an excellent suggestion and that was high on my match list (Tucson and Oregon too, but the heat/rain is a nonstarter). Keep cranking the hard stuff and go 'Dores (3-0). And Doug, thanks for the salute but I have to disagree, that PhD was the hardest thing I have ever done and constitues a real Dr. in the truest sense. Props to you. So sorry about the smash and grab thing. Now, I gotta meet Bob D for a go on the latest proj. Talk about someone who has a bliss. But for all his sends I think his greatest satisfaction comes from giving back and sharing it with those that come next. A life well lived. I live vicariously through him and the other great folks on here. And Grant, don't chase the cash or you'll look down to see you are wearing the "golden handcuffs" as Jon suggests. Do it because you care about the people you care for, it will make the hours and years all worth it. All that "stuff" is easier to get than it is to get free from. There is not one dead doctor being eulogized for what a nice car they had. Cheers.

Wow, real enlightening hearing from both sides of the career as a priority over climbing and vice versa. Mike and Ryan thanks mucho, there've been too many wise words for me to digest in one sitting but this has def given me a little guidance. Tom don't sweat it as I am sure you've seen hundred's of EMT students...

I am planning on taking a road trip/climb half year off after I graduate this spring with my lady friend (Probably will be another thread on where to go when), so hopefully I will fully be able to sort myself out and my priorities before I make the final commitment... But right now I feel like in the long run I'd be happiest if I make short term sacrifices to try and make the most of life, and the most money... ha jk

1) Colorado, Utah, Arizona, Washington, New Mexico, UC Davis have gotten good reviews from climber/physicians. Boston's 3 have tiny rocks close by.

2) Yes, you must learn to be efficient, but many folks got more climbing in while a med student than later in life. You'll probably have to get it in smaller bites. Some rotations (3rd/4th year) will interfere with climbing, but the newer hour limitations will ameliorate that somewhat.

A migrant worker climbing bum who could hike 13s without the MD?...at times, but you get to give back more as a physician.

Don't do medical school for money, fame, or lifestyle. Medicine is changing in ways that aren't necessarily for the positive. Golden handcuffs can be an appropriate term. Minimize your debt, and learn to yearn for less than you earn. You've got to like/love helping people in need or you'll come to crossroads partway through.

Hi, though I am not extremely experienced in climbing I live in socal and work at loma linda medical center/university. Though no great climbing within minutes, it has some great locations within or less than an hour, and if your willing to drive a little more you have world class climbs!

Big Rock at lake perris is about 25 minutes away, great climbs, can even climb during the summer if you go in the AM when they open the gates. New Jack is about an hour away too, great climbing. Then about 2 hours away is Joshua Tree.

If you can trad there is deep creek about 20 minutes away, plus can cliff jump. Great indoor gyms near by like hanger 18 who give great discounts to local students, right now its about 26 a month for a membership to all there gyms. Plus you can drive like an hour and goto the beach and surf!!!! (not really climbing related but its pretty much amazing as well)

Anywho, there is my 2 cents. Only place I know but its centrally located for a lot of things, plus a good med school ;)

I dont know about how much time youll have once you start residency but during med school you can squeeze some time in. I have a few friends in the program, they dont climb, but they do love to go hike etc. they find time about every other week when they dont have a clinical weekend etc.

I am an EMT and it intersects quite a bit in the outdoors. I am a BLS and outdoors first aid instructor. Though you hope you never need it, its great to go out knowing you can handle most injuries that would occur.

Scattered post, sorry lol

Hey Cory,
I've looked at Loma Lida, and I personally think you guys have the best med school location for climbing + weather, suicide, tahquitz, and Jtree very close... I looked into the school but seems like they have pretty grounded Christian roots, which is totally fine by me, and medicine could use a lot more christ like love. But do they even look at non-believers? I guess how many of your classmates are Athiests/Agnostics? Thanks

When you go for interviews ask students about how classes, studying, tests influence their extracurricular activities and lifestyle. Your climbing time during the last two years will be based more on the rotation and the attending physician, but will be more controllable during the preclinical years. In addition to proximity to climbing, here are the factors I would consider if I were choosing a medical school again.

1. Is attendance mandatory for any classes?
If you are the type of learner who needs to attend a live lecture to learn then this is less important. You have to learn the material, but you will get to climb more if you get to choose when to climb and when to study.

2. How many hours are scheduled for class each day?
During interviews all the schools claimed their curriculum was the same as everywhere else. It wasn't until later that I discovered that many of my colleagues at other institutions were only in class until noon when I was in class regularly until 5. This decreases study time and climbing time.

3. When are test most commonly administered?
If it was possible tests at my school were scheduled on Monday's. They thought it was a great plan because students could study for the entire weekend. I personally prefer them on Friday so I don't have to worry about a test all weekend and go climb. Plus, it's nice to take a test an then have a break rather than having class right away.

Good luck with your applications and interviews. Hopefully you'll do a better job of climbing during medical school than I have.

tytonic wrote: 1. Is attendance mandatory for any classes? If you are the type of learner who needs to attend a live lecture to learn then this is less important. You have to learn the material, but you will get to climb more if you get to choose when to climb and when to study. 2. How many hours are scheduled for class each day? During interviews all the schools claimed their curriculum was the same as everywhere else. It wasn't until later that I discovered that many of my colleagues at other institutions were only in class until noon when I was in class regularly until 5. This decreases study time and climbing time. 3. When are test most commonly administered? If it was possible tests at my school were scheduled on Monday's. They thought it was a great plan because students could study for the entire weekend. I personally prefer them on Friday so I don't have to worry about a test all weekend and go climb. Plus, it's nice to take a test an then have a break rather than having class right away.

This is why I love the U of A in phoenix. First two years class only was required monday and friday (you could do most of your school on your own time via recordings), three days of the week we were done by noon, and we have the option to take our weekend tests on friday or sunday. Definitely find a school that is flexible for your first two years. My buddy goes to an 8-5 medical school in chicago and he hates it.

Grant Gerhard wrote:Hey Cory, I've looked at Loma Lida, and I personally think you guys have the best med school location for climbing + weather, suicide, tahquitz, and Jtree very close... I looked into the school but seems like they have pretty grounded Christian roots, which is totally fine by me, and medicine could use a lot more christ like love. But do they even look at non-believers? I guess how many of your classmates are Athiests/Agnostics? Thanks

The religion of the hospital is SDA, which if you are one does give you a big plus. In my interview it was one of the frist 5 questions "are you SDA?" I am not SDA and at the time didnt even know what it was haha.. some what awkward but i got the job and accepted to the school.

I entered med school a 5.11 climber and finished a 5.12 climber. I agree with previous posts in that location is vital to fulfilling your climbing needs.

I will throw in a pitch for my school, University of Nevada. In fact, I really can't imagine it getting any better for a climber/med student. Here's why:

Main campus (i.e. first 2-years) is in Reno. Climbing highlights there are:
Donner Summit which is basically a destination crag 30-45 minutes away and excellent for Summer/Fall
A plethora of crags in and around Tahoe with great variety including Lover's Leap a bit further away with some of the best easy trad around.
A bit more than 3 hrs to the Tuolumne entrance gate.
Easy access to the Sierra Eastside including Owens where I was able to climb throughout the winter, spring and fall (bring down in winter).
Multiple crags and bouldering in the desert around Reno, Carson, and Pyramid Lake

You can elect to stay in Reno or go to Vegas for years 3 and 4. You see where I'm going here? 3rd year had a few thin stretches during my surgery and OB rotations but I managed to get out at least once a week and indoors 2+ times weekly. 4th year was the finest year of education one will ever have. Living in Vegas during that time was a climbers dream. I was able to climb at least 1-day each weekend from late November until mid-April until finally a storm came through and shut me out. Conditions were not always perfect, but I was on the rock and had a ball ticking off the RR classic sport climbs. In the warmer months got into the canyons pretty regularly and did many of the classics. I was never fond of Charleston, but that was always an option. Also got to Zion and St. George a good amount. Somewhere in my 4th year was also able to do a rural rotation in Bishop and 8-weeks of electives in Louisville, KY (Red River Gorge).

To do well in both medical school and climbing I agree that location is quite important. In my situation I was always close to killer, destination-type crags making getting out easy and staying motivated even easier.

A few helpful hints:

Keep disciplined in both education and climbing. Study everyday! Don't cram! Rest prior to exams. Get positive about indoor climbing wherever you go. No it's not real rock but will keep you strong and avoid having to "reinvent yourself" after stretches of not being able to get outdoors.

Sportclimbing is quite conducive to studying. I would always attempt to climb in groups and bring textbooks to the crags with me. You'd be amazed at how little belaying your partners will expect of you when you cozy up in your crazy creek chair with your OB/GYN text between burns. All texts are available on ipad now, so you won't even have to weight down your pack.

Med school is tough and you are expected to absorb a whole lot of info. That said, with discipline it is manageable and leaves time for other pursuits (family, climbing, etc). Learn what you need to be a caring, competent physician and don't fall prey to the cutthroat mentality that is present at all medical schools. I don't buy into the C=MD quote, but there's a huge difference between putting in a great effort and being the top-of-the-class.
There are certain residencies that seem to pick the top-of-the-class types though.

Med School is just the beginning. Much of what I previously stated also applies in residency to an even higher degree. As a resident, your time is more limited and your stress level higher due to increased responsibility. It's even more important to be in a convenient climbing location. I did residency in Fresno which on paper was ok climbing-wise with Yosemite a few hours away. The lack of a decent gym (one's since been built) and a small, scattered climbing community made it difficult. For the first time in my climbing career, motivation became an issue. Driving a few hours to Yosemite or Sonora was difficult when sleep-deprived. I missed the option of heading out to Red Rocks or Donner Summit for a few hours cragging.

I often refer to this quote from monomaniac's MP page:

Beware the focused weekend warrior. At their best they can be among the fittest and most gritty athletes out there. They know exactly what they want, they know their resources and abilities really well and their time is precious, so they're gonna get that next hold because they can't come back tomorrow for another try."

-Dave MacLeod

You can be a great doctor and climber if that's what you decide to do. Just don't assume that either achievement won't require discipline, motivation and determination.

Thanks for feedback... U of A and Reno sound great, Micheal are you from NV or a WICHE state? Their admissions site recommends out of staters to not apply. Kind of a bummer as Red Rocks rules. Matt Tuscon sounds great, Climbing magazine just gave it the best city for a climber to live in, If I get an interview next fall I will try and shoot you a PM.

I'm not from NV but went to college there and established NV residency. You'd have to establish residency there if you want to go since out-of-state tuition is prohibitive.

Grant Gerhard wrote:Thanks for feedback... U of A and Reno sound great, Micheal are you from NV or a WICHE state? Their admissions site recommends out of staters to not apply. Kind of a bummer as Red Rocks rules. Matt Tuscon sounds great, Climbing magazine just gave it the best city for a climber to live in, If I get an interview next fall I will try and shoot you a PM.

Absolutely. I know more about the Phoenix campus, but they are basically the same school in 2 separate locations. I applied to Nevada and got rejected with a letter stating that they only accept in staters and WICHE people. Waste of money.

Your choice of schools will obviously be multifactorial (i.e. not just climbing). Since this is a climbing site, I'll just speak in terms of climbing.

I lived in Flagstaff from 2006 to 2009 and spent a lot of time escaping cold N. AZ winters by retreating to PHX. There are multiple good gyms in PHX. You will be doing a good bit of driving to get to crags though like Queen Creek, Homestead, Sedona, Jacks, Pit, Paradise Forks. Maybe you don't mind that. PHX really lacks a "destination" area within very easy driving distance although some may argue that Queen Creek is that. From a pure climbing perspective, If you can find someplace with drives of less than an hour to quality climbing, you will get out a lot more. Also keep in mind that the Valley is huge and often congested. PHX is a pretty cool place where I could see living with great restaurants, activities for children, inexpensive housing, a real airport and great winter weather. There are a lot of good climbers from the Valley who spend a lot of time on I-17.

Tucson with year-round climbing at Mt. Lemmon, limestone desert cragging, Cochise sort of close for long classic routes seems like a better climbing choice.

Honestly this is more of a pressing consideration when you apply to residency. It seems like attendance in class is becoming less "required" which will free you to do more trips. Just make sure you bring your study materials. I did a lot of studying in a sleeping bag. In residency, you will be restricted to day trips aside from occasional "golden weekends" and vacation time (usually 3-4 weeks/year).

I had a similar experience to Matt applying to Univ of Utah as an out of state applicant. I'm glad I stayed in NV, but I would have climbed a bunch in Salt Lake had I went there with easy access to the Cottonwoods, AF and whatever else.