need opinions: passing without permission/total disregard

Right on Kalous.

However, I think the real mistake here is that they didn't feign an accent and act like they were German. As I understand, that's the "real" way to do it in places like the Valley.

"Sprechen zie Deutsche? No English us! We pass!"

Everyone has the right to be a beginner, I remember being passed several times my first season leading trad, what I was taught was a "if you can pass me, then pass me" policy. On a route with no where to pass while still climbing, You're better off waiting on the ground, getting up earlier the next day, or taking the opportunity to take a good look around in beautiful TM while waiting for the party above to get a move on.

Only thing you did wrong was cave in on letting him run you over, I would have not let him pass, unless he planned on simul climbing, was doing a big day link up, or offered to haul my 3rd climber for me :)

You must be a real giver to haul up a party of 3 though :p

First off... i have been climbing for 11+ years and have plenty of experience under my belt.i am also IRATA certified.

I politely waited for TWO other parties, one of which was a party of three.

my partners, were my girlfriend and her son. both with very little experience.

YOUR ego/goals should never have any impact on the safety of ME and My partners.

I waited... so should you!!!

i dont care who you are...WAIT

the person who passed me was also with an unexperienced partner....

SO.... suffer from disregard...no...maybe suffer from not being an ASSHOLE like some people......probably

as for the knife comment....well i cant say that never crossed my mind....but wouldnt actually do it...or would i??lol

GoBoy wrote:Everyone has the right to be a beginner, I remember being passed several times my first season leading trad, what I was taught was a "if you can pass me, then pass me" policy. On a route with no where to pass while still climbing, You're better off waiting on the ground, getting up earlier the next day, or taking the opportunity to take a good look around in beautiful TM while waiting for the party above to get a move on. Only thing you did wrong was cave in on letting him run you over, I would have not let him pass, unless he planned on simul climbing, was doing a big day link up, or offered to haul my 3rd climber for me :) You must be a real giver to haul up a party of 3 though :p

ABSOLUTELY

JLP wrote:I don't see the issue here as having much to do with climbing. When you meet someone at a belay, you have to communicate and work with them. Some people just don't do well with that. I'm guessing the OP suffers "disregard" in other areas of his life as well. Oh what an elixir to be able to come to MP.com for some attention to heal the pain. This thread is sorely lacking in the other party’s take on what actually happened.

yes, that is how it works....if you ask to pass and you are told no, TOUGH SHIT !!!!!!

just because someone wants to have an elitist attitude doesnt mean they can do whatever they want....

if i came in front of you and your party, and stepped in your line of sight of the climber (when they are in the crux), what are you gonna say to me??? i would like to know....are you gonna be polite like i/we were or are you gonna have this shitty attitude towards me, because you think your a better, faster climber???

the other person probably would never respond to this because of the way he handled things. he was in the wrong .PERIOD

you want to pass, how bout using some common courtesy and common sense. there was plenty of time for them to finish.

shame on you

JLP wrote:Get used to it if you want to climb popular moderates slow. He may have been in the "wrong", but only by wanting to pass on a jammed route. You weren't in the "right" either by bringing a slow party of 3 on a classic multipitch. There are no written rules and you don't own the rock. Also - this kind of nonsense never happens between experienced climbers on harder routes.

what is your definition of experienced????

not being in the right for bringing a party of 3???
its a two pitch climb at best!!
there are no written rules but there is something called respect.

he didnt just want to pass me. He was impatient!!! no excuses

since when is 5.6 moderate??? i always took them as easy....moderate didnt start until like 5.8/5.9 through 5.11-

bottom line AGAIN i waited so should you!!!

Why does it matter if it's a party of three? Sure, it's slower than a party of two, but likely still faster than two parties of two. If there are two parties in front of you, you need to wait for both...why shouldn't you have to wait for one larger/slower group?

That being said, I know damn well that I'm a slower, newb leader. If I have somebody behind me that can clearly climb faster, I'll make an attempt to let them pass. If they're dicks about it and are completely rude though, I may not try so hard.

jon vandub wrote:this guy comes from the bottom and stands in FRONT of my belayer blocking her view and hitting her in the face with his rope....

No offense, but I have a feeling you made that sound a lot worse than it actually was, making the rest of your story seem a lot less credible.

So, in the end...did he pass you safely and quickly?

I am one of the climbers that went up the Northwest Books with Jon that day. I have no problem being polite to people, working it out always benefits everyone. However, this guy came up behind me and stepped over my belay line as Jon was leading the first pitch. He smacked me in the head repeatedly with his rope, blocking my view of my partner and distracting me. That was a blatant disregard of my partner's safety, he should NOT have interfered with an active belayer. If he had talked to us and asked permission to pass, we probably would have let them. We had previously let a solo climber and another party of three start up first as a courtesy. As a new climber I am unfamiliar with the general rules of behavior for climbers, but as a person, I can tell when someone has no regard for another. I objected to his behavior and he backed off but came up directly behind my teenage son without permission and forced us to sit on a shaded ledge in the cold for at least half an hour while he set up a belay above us for his partner and had him climb past us. The one bright spot was encouraging his partner (new climber) past a few hard spots and giving him a thumbs up as he passed. We may have been pissed but we knew WHO the problem was. You meet assholes in all sorts of places, just the way it is. We went on to have a great climb together without anyone breathing down our necks.

Passing on a 2 pitch route = lame!

Ben Doyle wrote:Kalous for president, cuz he's a diplomat.

Yeah...disrespect for those around you, out right lying and stealing, and an overtly heightened sense of self worth. Sounds like a politician to me.

I've run into dicks like Kalous at the crag who like to use their smiles to get me to do what they want. They usually go away not liking me much. I can guarantee that your shit show act would not work with me Kalous.

.....or get there really early so you don't (hopefully) have to worry about it. People like that suck. Always have options for other climbs.

Yarp wrote: Yeah...disrespect for those around you, out right lying and stealing, and an overtly heightened sense of self worth. Sounds like a politician to me. I've run into dicks like Kalous at the crag who like to use their smiles to get me to do what they want. They usually go away not liking me much. I can guarantee that your shit show act would not work with me Kalous.

Garrrrdammmmittt, I am CERTIFIED!!

yo kalous, i like your style of doing shit. way to get that time share that was smooth.But, sometimes a wink and a smile doesn't work and you gotta move on to plan b, the back hand. Thats right, the back hand lets a mother effer know whats up, you mean business.

Naw, I leave the rough stuff to the gerbil.

i can dig it.