South Mountain Gluing

Paul Davidson wrote: Well, at least you're keeping it quiet and amongst yourselves while you deal with the issue as opposed to posting it on a national board where anyone can see. Ah, I see, it's posted with the stealth option checked.

Paul, I'm going to respond by quoting a comment you left here: mountainproject.com/v/arizo…

"The question of airing dirty laundry in public is an interesting one. I do think there can be potential for problematic policy decisions (damage to access, fixed anchor bans, etc...) when specific details of actions are publicly aired, but it would seem that those risks exist apriori to the thread and that the potential for problems caused by public debate is minimal relative to the potential benefits of an interchange of ideas (disseminating local ethics, possibly changing people's minds, preventing chipping, grid bolting, etc...

My own experience is that sometimes folks have no idea of what local ethics are, especially in a college town where you have new climbers drifting in and out each year. And while one might scream and cuss in a discussion group over a perceived slight (or an idiotic argument ;-) ), sometimes, later in the quiet of the night, the rational side of the mind takes over and the independent nature of climbers can be led to believe that having and adhering to local ethics is in fact a good thing. Indeed, sometimes in that situation one can even realize that the idiot was not the other person but rather one's own self. The nature of the internet is such that it is too easy for us to mis-interpret what someone has written.

So the question I'm left with is: Does the potential good of the discussion out weigh the potential bad?

I think history shows that overall discussion yields far more positive than negative results."

Edit: I believe you very eloquently summarized exactly why a discussion is necessary when things like this occur within our community.

Touche. Good dredging, Eddie ;).

Like Paul said in his New Mexico response that you found, airing the dirty laundry can be a good thing. When it gets super personal and ego driven, that's when you get the travesty threads that really do no good (not this thread at all).

If South Mountain access were in question, this thread might also be more dubious to post, but I think it's fair enough to discuss what the area ethics are. Tread lightly, everybody, those bouldering areas are a natural resource that should be enjoyed by boulderer and hiker alike for a long time to come, not an outdoor gym.

And why is it worth it to rant in public about illegal activitly that can shut the access to an area down???

Because the action took place illegally in a public place for everyone including the park service or anyone else to see. Better to try and handle it among climbers on a climbing forum.
PS: compared to New Mexico crags you guys got lucky. There are whole areas covered in messy glue. Not an opinion, just a fact.

There's a thin line between love and hate with personal forums...imho.
I spoke out on issues I am aware of - this one was particularly sensitive since I have spent quite a bit of time up there, climbing, hiking and biking and hate to see such destruction.
In an area with such a degrading geology, allowing gluing without
consideration for aesthetics is deranged... The whole area is flaking and breaking off ... Gluing holds will NOT stop that. Since access is not an issue, why make it one because of the actions of a couple people.
If they went online to see the area, perhaps they will revisit and
see the attitude of the local community on their "additions" to our area.
I stand by initial take on the matter and my website has been instrumental in voicing a "Leave No Trace" policy wherever we climb.

You know - I must recant my initial statement regarding my assumption that the gluing was done by someone from the gym down the street from Pima Canyon. It could have been from any one of a number of the gyms in the area that have bouldering - Hell it could have been some two bit Kookermeir from Apache Junction - How retarded of me to assume. I recant my prognosis with the notion that whoever it is and wherever they climb - they share the same decency to the area that I try to.
Satisfactory?

In addition, is there any thought to going back up and fixing the issue to help it blend in? I have the materials.

I was out there one day with my buddy and we met the dood who probably did it. He was braggin about puttin up all of these new boulder problems and we watched him do a very impressive 32 move boulder problem from afar. We saw later on the hike out that those very holds from the photos were indeed glued on. We werent too happy about it but what can be done? If you are going to take legal action i suggest you find out who is puttin up the hard problems on that boulder and get a good lawyer.

Danjerous87 wrote:I was out there one day with my buddy and we met the dood who probably did it. He was braggin about puttin up all of these new boulder problems and we watched him do a very impressive 32 move boulder problem from afar. We saw later on the hike out that those very holds from the photos were indeed glued on. We werent too happy about it but what can be done? If you are going to take legal action i suggest you find out who is puttin up the hard problems on that boulder and get a good lawyer.

IMO the only thing that can really be done is let him know gluing is not cool and direct him to this thread... Chances are someone will clean up the mess within the next month or two if it can be done without further damaging the rock. I truly believe most SoMo climbers are more concerned with educating than crucifying.

i was at a "newly openeed to the public" crag this weekend. now the access fund has been working to ensure future access which is great. but now that it is "theirs" everyone there has to be a tool.

anyways i find out that it seems to be the common ethic there to glue and chip if neccesary. now this cliff is by no means worth gluing. like someone said upthread. it is in the rocks nature to exfoliate. just because a route is your favorite outdoor gym climb and you have your own personal lawn chair real estate right under said "hard" route does not in any way make gluing and or chiping right.

needless to say this crag had a very yuppy san fran feel to me and a bad vibe going. i say if you want a gym feel, outside go to a big bay area gym and keep your yuppy elitest asses in out of the mountains.

sorry for being an ass.

but any modification to the rock is bad, bolts, pitons, bat hooks etc. and should be avoided at all cost.

Greg wrote:Just tell him if you see any holds with glue on them, you're going to bring out a crowbar and peel them off and take them home with you. I have a hard time believing anyone would would make a mess like that would appreciate subtlety.

HA HA - Thats awesome. Like a jet plane over their head eh?
LOL The crowbar might come in handy with any sticky residue...

John Greer Jr. wrote: but any modification to the rock is bad, bolts, pitons, bat hooks etc. and should be avoided at all cost.

It sounds like you should start your own Jailhouse thread. I can't comment on your other observations, I've never been there. I've been to Gold Wall, which is probably a similar vibe. It's pretty easy to tar the Bay Area with the same brush, much as it is any group. It kinda makes those doing it look small and full of provincial angst though.