GriGri 2 vs. Trango Cinch

Here is what comes to my mind right away as far as improvements are concerned:

- feeds rope much more easily
- smaller
- lighter

In the mean time the pros of the Grigri1 are still there.

daniel c wrote:I'm sticking with my Cinch. Still lighter and range of rope diameters is effectively the same for my purposes (ie I'm never going to use a rope thinner than 9.7 or fatter than 10.5). Also, the Cinch is a time tested design using time tested materials. I'll wait for others to guinea pig the Grigri2 before I shell out the money for a new belay assist device. CINCH Weight: 182 grams / 6.42 oz Recommended Rope Diameter: 9.4 - 11mm GRIGRI2 Weight: 185 grams / 6.53 oz Recommended Rope Diameter: 8.9 to 11mm

So, for your purposes, does does 3 grams make a big difference?

Peter London wrote:There alot of climbers that love the cinch and I used to be one of them. I have recently experienced and heard of many instances of problems using the cinch that have since convinced me to THROW MINE AWAY. In addition to my droping my partner two bolts due to my inattention I have a friend who decked due to his belay partner keeping the cinch cam open resulting in a broken back and neck. While not going into the details I believe the Cinch to be dangerous (yes I understand they were operator errors, but I believe the Cinch is more apt to lead belayers to making errors). I've also corresponded with an editor from Rock and Ice Mag. and he has heard of a rope being cut by a Cinch and witnessed a Cinch break during lowering. P.s. That same editor has been using the GriGri 2 for about two months now and loves it. He said that they'll be available to the general public in March.

Replies:

Chris Plesko wrote: You have to be a fool to think that what you just posted influences anyone's opinion other than the one that you're an idiot.

Sam Stephens wrote: I'm speechless... You are beyond dumb. ... Basically you're going on hearsay and a lack of belaying skill for your disdain towards the Cinch?

Easy there, you guys are unnecessarily harsh. Remember rule #1 and be nice. Peter explicitly said "[he] believes the Cinch is more apt to lead belayers making more errors." He didn't directly blame the device as you two imply. I stopped using my Cinch this past summer (after two years of experience with it) after twice falling further than I should have while leading and twice allowing leaders I was belaying to fall further than they should have. I don't explicitly blame the Cinch but do find it easier to let more rope through the device than with a GriGri. And I know, and practice, the proper way to use both devices. So as these things go, the best device for you is the one you're the most comfortable with and know how to use the best. I'm not condoning the Cinch or calling it unsafe (I really liked when I was using it), it's just not for me and for safety's sake, I'm not afraid to admit it.

To the OP here, if you haven't already, I'd suggest borrowing/renting each device and see how you like the two. I've heard the GG2 is due out in March so if you can rent a little longer, it's probably worth the wait, IMO.

My take is this- My friend was involved in a rescue at The Dark Side crag in The Red River Gorge. The belayer was using a Cinch, correctly threaded, when the climb took the fall and decked. The belayer had rope burns in hands and the cinch didnt catch. I would not advise this but know the Gri Gri will catch a fall without holding the rope at all. The climber died in ICU. You make the choice. Or wait on the Gri Gri 2

xrtrady1 wrote:My take is this- My friend was involved in a rescue at The Dark Side crag in The Red River Gorge. The belayer was using a Cinch, correctly threaded, when the climb took the fall and decked. The belayer had rope burns in hands and the cinch didnt catch. I would not advise this but know the Gri Gri will catch a fall without holding the rope at all. The climber died in ICU. You make the choice. Or wait on the Gri Gri 2

hi

could you give more details on this, or any articles/time frame ... this is the first ive heard of it

thanks!

xrtrady1 wrote:My take is this- My friend was involved in a rescue at The Dark Side crag in The Red River Gorge. The belayer was using a Cinch, correctly threaded, when the climb took the fall and decked. The belayer had rope burns in hands and the cinch didnt catch. I would not advise this but know the Gri Gri will catch a fall without holding the rope at all. The climber died in ICU. You make the choice. Or wait on the Gri Gri 2

The information above is by far too incomplete to make any judgement on the situation or the cinch. I have my speculation but I'm sure the belayer feels bad enough already.

Grigri's can still not catch if you're not holding the rope. With the Cinch, it's even easier to never let go with your brake hand nor pinch the cam shut as many do on the grigri. You don't take your break hand of an ATC and expect it to work do you?

Re: the cinch not catching.

I've been guilty of letting my partner fall too far on lead due to inattention. Thankfully he was far enough up that there were no injuries, but since then I've been careful to change my technique according to the Youtube video.

The cinch does auto-catch, but if you are holding it open to feed rope to your leader, then rope can easily slip through, especially if you are standing directly below the first draw. You need a bit of friction to trigger the auto-lock mechanism or at least be standing at an angle such that the rope would pull it shut.

Chris Tan wrote:but if you are holding it open to feed rope to your leader, then rope can easily slip through

Why are you doing this?

looks like you can preorder the gg2 on mountain gear. doesn't ship til feb 10th though.

mountaingear.com/pages/prod…

I had belayed with the Cinch for almost a year, caught many lead falls without a problem. Would have recommended it to my grandma. I always kept my hand on the break. One day my buddy took a lead fall on slab and as I was expecting to be pulled up a little bit like normal. Instead the rope started flying through the cinch making an awful zzzzz sound. It burned my hand pretty bad and luckily he was sixty feet up. He took a 30 ft. fall when it should have been 7-10 ft. tops.

On the other hand, I hate it when people belay with the gri-gri improperly. Example: While leader is clipping, the belayer grabs cam on gri-gri with their break hand and throws some slack out.

Fact:The gri-gri catches falls automatically much better than the cinch.

I only use an ATC now.

I like my Cinch, and I can see why people have problems with pinching the device to pay out slack. I didn't understand why you needed to do this (which is very incorrect practice), until I figured that if you twisted the Cinch 90 degrees and down that the rope will feed itself. When a load is applied, the cinch will be brought up towards the load and the Cinch will pinch the rope. Pinching the device will render the device useless, and you might as well use an ATC at this point.

However, you should not be belaying if you are not paying attention to what the climber is doing. I certainly don't want that kind of person belaying me if my life depended on it.

Any kind of auto-assist device can never replace good belay technique and attention.

I agree with those who say that ye-olde ATC or ATC Guide are the best beginner's device to belay on.

On cost, in Canada they are all ~ the same price at MEC. $87: Cinch, $88 GriGri, $89 GriGri 2.

bearbreeder wrote: hi could you give more details on this, or any articles/time frame ... this is the first ive heard of it thanks!

The Darkside accident has some information available at rockclimbing.com

FYI, the accident was clear operator error. No reason not to buy a Cinch. I was part of the rescue and own a Cinch. That being said, I prefer my GriGri2.

Where is this info? I am having a hard time searching it down?

Mojo Stylee wrote:Where is this info? I am having a hard time searching it down?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2321037;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread

rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/fo…;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread

These two threads cover it if my memory serves. As usual for RC, you'll have to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'm really not interested in dredging up the emotions by reading through and picking out the relevant posts, sorry.

xrtrady1 wrote:My take is this- My friend was involved in a rescue at The Dark Side crag in The Red River Gorge. The belayer was using a Cinch, correctly threaded, when the climb took the fall and decked. The belayer had rope burns in hands and the cinch didnt catch. I would not advise this but know the Gri Gri will catch a fall without holding the rope at all. The climber died in ICU. You make the choice. Or wait on the Gri Gri 2

This a clear misinterpretation of the causes of the accident. The device was not at fault. A cinch also holds a fall without holding the rope at all(even thought it is not recommended). The climber decked because of belayer error, which could have happened with any device.

Having used a cinch in the past, and having gotten the opportunity recently to use a grigri2, I must say go with the gri gri. From someone who has always used the original Grigri, it is a very simple and intuitive transition. It is easy to feed slack and easy to catch. The thing is designed to be used with the "new" belay method, and does so better than any device I have used. The Cinch always felt awkward to me, even after practice. I always felt like I needed to fiddle with it to get it to feed slack... not good. My default was to either go back to the Grigri, or to use a tube style device. However, my partner's new GG2 is instantly my new favorite. Hands down the most intuitive device I have ever used. And for someone who has always used the "old" belay method on a grigri, it was no problem switching to the new one... something i resisted before.

That said... steap and cheap had GriGri 1 for $50! Pretty good deal...

Just was observing most of the people on lead belay at my gym (including kids) on the Gri Gri using very bad technique and developing bad habits. Was it my eyes, or is this the new technique that I didn't know about?

Holding the cam and paying out slack in all situations. I certainly don't want anyone one of those belayers when I am lead climbing.

You should be able to pay out slack without holding the cam.

Learn on a tube first, before using an auto-assist device, and practice looping the rope at the gym and paying out slack with the device before lead belaying anyone.

Just tested the GriGri2 and I'm sticking with the Cinch. I find the GG2 more sticky than the GG. No wonder people hold the cam down.

I've been lead belaying for around 4 years I personally love the regular gri gri and I am not a fan of the cinch. The new gri gri2 has a smaller drum so I would just warn you that when letting some one down more than 40 ft then your gri gri2 will burn you if you touch it. If I was you just by a plain reliable gri gri it Worked the past 15 years why change now?

dont know if this helps but the girgi 2 IS out,and i got one last week.

Patrick Feeney wrote:dont know if this helps but the girgi 2 IS out,and i got one last week.

I bet it gets pretty hot after letting your climber down