building up my first trad rack

I currently have Totem Cams 065-150 which is roughly equivalent to .3-1 in camalots. I also have one set of BD stoppers.

Should I be looking to double up in this range or expanding into larger or smaller pieces? I mostly climb trad at Teton Canyon and City of Rocks.

Or should i be working on variety-- tricams and ballnutz and such?

My experience leads me to believe that doubles on small gear is more useful than doubles on large. I have doubles on .4, .5, .75 (BD C4 camalots). Hexes might be a good investment as they can be passive AND active pro i.e. they can act as cams. They're super cheap (~$100 for a set). I've got a set from the 80s that are in the back of my gear closet (handed down to me, don't trust my life on them). I need to get a new set.

I'd get a #2 and 3 in BD camalots and another set of nuts (I carry 1.5 sets with doubles in the 4-9 sizes) next. If you find yourself scared on wide stuff, throw in a number 4 camalot.

Then, I'd double down on the cams you already have in BD camalots.

Evan

P LaDouche wrote: OMG not again...

Quit whining. Beginners have just as much right to ask questions in this forum as you do. Sometimes its nice to be able to have YOUR specific questions answered instead of searching through similar posts.

John Maguire wrote: Quit whining. Beginners have just as much right to ask questions in this forum as you do. Sometimes its nice to be able to have YOUR specific questions answered instead of searching through similar posts.

I personally don't care if people clutter up the forums with the same question every few days... the problem is that this question is best answered out CLIMBING! No one knows what the guy should buy... only he will figure it out after he actually climbs a few pitches with his gear. Asking and answering this question is just promoting needless consumerism when the real answer should be "what do you think?"

Maybe to some extent... There is a general consensus towards the superiority of C4s and the usefulness of doubles in certain sizes.

Ryan Williams wrote: people clutter up the forums with the same question every few days... best answered out CLIMBING!"

Most of the posts on mountainproject are just variations on a few themes, and could be greeted with the same grumpy response. A forum admin providing the flames is an interesting variation. Having a rough day, Ryan?

Justin Brunson wrote:I currently have Totem Cams 065-150 which is roughly equivalent to .3-1 in camalots. I also have one set of BD stoppers. Should I be looking to double up in this range or expanding into larger or smaller pieces? I mostly climb trad at Teton Canyon and City of Rocks. Or should i be working on variety-- tricams and ballnutz and such?

Howdy, most folks start with what would be 1 each of size 1-4 friends. So fill that out first.

Good reading to be found at Supertaco (Supertopo) on all kinds of pro.

Stay away from tricams!!! Old design, modern nuts are better, cams WAY better and I wouldn't want to trust my life to their camming ability. They do work in very specialized and rare placements well, tho.

I would look into getting more nuts (I like DMM wallnuts, peeenuts and offsets & Wild Country superlight rocks) and hexes (DMM torque) to help you with doubles and triples.

Don't be afraid to sell stuff u try and don't like.

BD has not modernized their anodization of nuts, WC and DMM match sizes between nuts and cams with the same color, ditto between same sizes in different lines of nuts.

Also consider the headwidth in smaller sizes. Metolius makes some nice smaller cams, I like the TCU as they are light and cheap.

I'm nearby to Rexburg, have fun!

I think tri-cams are a great idea. They can be funky to place sometimes but if done properly they are bomb proof. They are also nice to have because they fit a wide variety of places in both passive and active positions. I routinely use all of mine on a pitch and they will hold a fall just fine. Don't go overboard on them though. The standard .5 to 2 (pink through brown) is plenty to have for most places.

Jake you wrote:

"The first being that it will never be answered properly and without disdain.

you'll rarely find a need for anything bigger than a size 3 Camalot. However, this guy could live in chimney country where offwidths are everywhere."

Hey don't include most of us in that!

Might I suggest to politely include a link to a really good past discussion?

And I do live in the same country and especially for the Tetons and the Wind River Range, a good and diverse collection of MODERN (which Stoppers are not, though they are good, not great) nuts is key.

As for doubles, try the hexes/rockcentrics/torque nuts/curve hex.

Most folks do agree sizes 1,2,3,4 are a good start in friends, then 1.5 & 2.5, then fill in with what ever is needed.

My 2 cents is skip doubles and doubles/some of the smallest sizes until you have the nuts dialed in, lead easy climbs A LOT until you have a really good feel for what the rock is offering, how pro is placed, and even how to organize your rack (i.e. looking from the ground and bringing just what you need with a little margin for error). Also second harder leads and don't be afraid to top rope a harder lead, get the gear dialed (or even pre-place it) and then try to lead.

BTW Skip the tri cams, they're $24 a piece, they do work well as nuts, but I really don't trust them as cams tho they are useful for pockets in volcanic rock/limestone (which there ain't much of around here--at least that doesn't have a bolt in it already).

John Maguire wrote: Quit whining. Beginners have just as much right to ask questions in this forum as you do. Sometimes its nice to be able to have YOUR specific questions answered instead of searching through similar posts.

Ryan Williams wrote: I personally don't care if people clutter up the forums with the same question every few days... the problem is that this question is best answered out CLIMBING! No one knows what the guy should buy... only he will figure it out after he actually climbs a few pitches with his gear. Asking and answering this question is just promoting needless consumerism when the real answer should be "what do you think?"

Beginners should not be trying to learn how to climb on the internet. It seems to me that after following say maybe 10 climbs one would know what is needed. Ryan gets it mostly right except for the fact that letting guys like this buy buy and buy it is supporting the climbing community.

Just whatever you do Justin, stay away from alien cams, they are known to be faulty and flimsy and please dont buy any tricams, they suck and anyone following/cleaning for you will most likely never climb with you again.

Glad you were born an expert, the forum IS for folks to ask questions.

The internet is in part there to do research which is part of learning.

So you say it is responsible for folks NOT to read books on climbing and check out what there is to learn on the internet, instead they should just climb? LMAO!

I couldn't disagree more about Tricams, I personally won't leave the ground without them.

As far as gear is concerned, talk to the climbers around the area you plan on climbing the most, every area is different and requires a different variation of a rack.

Jiles Perry wrote:I couldn't disagree more about Tricams, I personally won't leave the ground without them. As far as gear is concerned, talk to the climbers around the area you plan on climbing the most, every area is different and requires a different variation of a rack.

In fairness, a Tricam did save a partner from decking......

twenty two years ago!

I do like them as nuts, but they're a little dated that way. Seems like hexes slung with Dyneema have stolen their thunder a tad.

tricams work ... theyre light, flexible and great for belays when youve used up yr cams

a set makes a great doubles for the cams and nuts at the same time

Confused about Tri-cams yet? Why don't you try the pink and red sizes and see if you like them. In places that have shallow horizontal cracks (Like the Gunks) you'll find they make great placements and you'll see them on lots of people's racks. The larger sizes seem to be less popular and a I personally feel they are little more difficult to set securely.

Justin Brunson wrote:I currently have Totem Cams 065-150 which is roughly equivalent to .3-1 in camalots.

Whoa! You started off with a set of Totem Cams?! I suggest you rack up with every novelty-esque piece of gear you can find. Back those up with Link Cams for sure. From there, I see sliding nuts, big bros, and maybe the really large tricams in your future.

Lots of interesting advice. KISS (keep it simple stupid)

set of rp's
double set of rocks usually only carry single of 1,2,3
set of cams, I start with small 0, 1, 2, 3 aliens (mine are before mfging problems, I'd buy C3's now then gray (?), purple .5, green .75 , red 1, yellow 2, and 3 camalots, with an old 4 friend in the pack just in case, a bunch (I have 15) of long draws (a couple tied the rest sewn) 2 to 3 feet tripled
A BD zodiac gear sling to keep every thing in balance and make change over at belays smooth.

Your good to climb anywhere from city to RR add to or take away what you don't need.

Use lots of gear it keeps you climbing safe, and that's what you bought it for.

Have fun.

Zeke wrote: Whoa! You started off with a set of Totem Cams?! I suggest you rack up with every novelty-esque piece of gear you can find. Back those up with Link Cams for sure. From there, I see sliding nuts, big bros, and maybe the really large tricams in your future.

yeah, I thought that might raise a few eyebrows. I got them as payment from a small gym where I work. They're bomber pieces but i wouldn't have chosen them otherwise just because of the price.

Thanks for the advice folks, it's especially helpful to hear from people in the teton area.

P LaDouche wrote: Beginners should not be trying to learn how to climb on the internet. It seems to me that after following say maybe 10 climbs one would know what is needed. Ryan gets it mostly right except for the fact that letting guys like this buy buy and buy it is supporting the climbing community. Just whatever you do Justin, stay away from alien cams, they are known to be faulty and flimsy and please dont buy any tricams, they suck and anyone following/cleaning for you will most likely never climb with you again.

Staples of my rack! But my partners do hate following me :)

I think you're the first person to agree with me on the internet in a LONG time. I'm not sure how I feel about this...

Ryan Williams wrote: I personally don't care if people clutter up the forums with the same question every few days... the problem is that this question is best answered out CLIMBING! No one knows what the guy should buy... only he will figure it out after he actually climbs a few pitches with his gear. Asking and answering this question is just promoting needless consumerism when the real answer should be "what do you think?"

Thanks. I am starting a rack, and I think this is the best advice I have found on the subject.