Ladders, etriers, or...

I'm getting ready to start practicing some aid early next year and am having a hard time deciding what kind of aiders I should get.

I've been looking at the metolius pocket aiders as an affordable starter option. I like their price and their size.

The Yates ladder is my second choice but they seem a little intense for the basic, short aid I'll be doing to start off with.

Black diamond etriers are also a candidate but I tried them out at a few times and I don't know if I'm a fan of the etrier style.

Just wondering if you guys have any input on the subject?

Thanks

Fish Products (www.fishproducts.com) Two Thumbs Up !!

Look at
supertopo.com/a/How-To-Big-…

Definately go with ladder style aiders. I'd take a look at Yates or Fish, everything else is mediocre in comparison. Also look at adjustable daisies over a conventional pocketed daisy.

Personally i have the fatty yates, and kinda wish i had gone with the regular 1 in ladders.

Fish: fishproducts.com/
Yates: yatesgear.com/climbing/etri…

T

ladders w/o a doubt

Ladders it is!

Thanks guys, I'll look at getting some Yates or Fish ladders.

Joe Virtanen wrote:Ladders it is! Thanks guys, I'll look at getting some Yates or Fish ladders.

Ladders are overkill for anything but long intense aid. Sure they are nice but once you have to pull a free move or two you will realize that they don't work worth a shit when switching from aid to free. Lots of aid routes around have easy/mod free sections. You could aid through that 50' of 5.8 hands but why would you want to? Maybe your gonna jump straight on Mescalito...dunno. Good luck.

ladders reduce clutter in regards to the old 2 etriers per daisy system. If he is getting into aid then they are the way to go. Around here in NC where the easiest aid routes incorporate multiple hook moves, they are a lot more friendly. The NC aid routers I've done do not have these easy 5.8 sections mid pitch, but more like 5.12 and up moves, so stepping out of the ladders to free isn't going to be an issue unless Joe crushes it, in which case he wouldn't be aiding these routes but trying to free them. I have no problem coming out of my ladders and free climbing easier terrain.

rock_fencer wrote:ladders reduce clutter in regards to the old 2 etriers per daisy system.

Did I advocate 2 etriers per daisy?

I've recently started using only one aider with sewn daisy and one adjustable daisy for less than overhanging. If it gets steep I'll add a second aider connected on another sewn daisy. I'm still learning this game but I like this system and it keeps me working with the rock instead of becoming so focused on standing in my aiders. I also find that walking up a single aider while on a hook is easier for me because the ladders want to move towards center with every step. Etriers seem more stable to me on hooks.

Don't get me wrong...the ladders work but with all the shit we carry aid climbing they just tend to turn into a cluster for me. Hard aid they are nice for though. To each his own I guess.

nope you didn't, i was more pointing out the "advance" over the old system that was common.

I'm still a learning aid n00b anyways. Curious system you've got, i'll have to try it. Do you just clip your adjustable daisy to the next piece, sit on it and then swap over the ladder?

You really to look at the type of routes you're planning on doing and what you have in terms of budget. Personally I tend to only aid moves I need to and not whole pitches unless it's absolutely necessary. I like the pocket aiders so I'm able to keep them out of the way when I'm not aiding. I also have some ladders for times I plan on doing a lot of aiding on a route. Like everything it's all about what routes you plan to climb.

+1 on the adjustable daisies, they are a lot easier to deal with than traditional ones.

If you don't already have Jumars make sure you try bunch of them out before you buy them. Find a pair that's comfortable in your hands, uncomfortable Jumars make for an unpleasant day.

I'd also suggest a few books to get started in case you haven't read some already.

Big Wall Climbing: Elite Technique (Mountaineers Outdoor Expert Series): Jared Ogden
amazon.com/gp/product/08988…;pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0811724174&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0329243BHQHKY4AA1MT5

How to Climb: Big Walls (How To Climb Series): Long Long
amazon.com/How-Climb-Big-Wa…

The John Long book is less technical but it's easier to read (the other reads like a text book) and will leave you rolling on the floor from some of his stories. The one thing he really hit's on the nose is that once you try it it's a lot easier than it looks in the illustrations. My climbing partner and I read this book, bought some gear and then when out and aid climbed the next day, still alive.

Thanks for the tips Matt, especially the books. That John Long book is only a few books off amazon so I'll have to pick up a copy.

rock_fencer wrote:Do you just clip your adjustable daisy to the next piece, sit on it and then swap over the ladder?

Yup

rock_fencer wrote: Do you just clip your adjustable daisy to the next piece, sit on it and then swap over the ladder?

This is actually a very inefficient way to aid climb. If you want to stay "on the rock" then your best bet is to avoid hanging from your daisys unless you have to. Regardless of what type of aid ladder you use you always want to be in your aiders when aiding. When possible you should continue to use your hands and climb well above your pieces so you can minimize placements. Ideally you are getting into your second from top step fifi'ed in and placing your next piece so that you have to lean back ( and un-fifi)to get your foot into the bottom loop, then walk up the ladder and fifi into your next piece.

If you can learn to only weigh your daisys when testing a piece or resting you will become a much faster aid climber.

BTW I like a combination of Yates speed ladders any time I am aiding more than a couple pitches and Metolius pocket aiders the rest of the time.

Joe Virtanen wrote:Thanks for the tips Matt, especially the books. That John Long book is only a few books off amazon so I'll have to pick up a copy.

Also pick up "Long on Adventure" if you haven't already read it. It' not about Aid Climbing but it's seriously one of my favorite books (climbing related or not and I'm a Classics Major), simply hilarious!

Kevin Stricker wrote: This is actually a very inefficient way to aid climb.

So from what I posted above you are able to critique my entire aid system and tell me it's a bunch of shit?

Yer good!

Bump for Fish Ladder Aiders. Love mine.