fifi to bail...

next one on the way down as you pull the draws so you're backed up. i'd think i was an idiot but I've seen it done that way a lot. IE routes with 2 random biners on two consecutive bolts just left there. Well I guess I could still be an idiot...

Woodchuck ATC wrote: Or am I leaving one clipped to the next lower bolt as a 'backup'?

That's what I pictured.

If its a well bolted sport route with easy climbing to the first bolt, how about down-whipping? Just fall between the bolts until you get to the last one, then unclip and down climb. Seems safer to me than the fifi hook if you are unwilling to leave a biner.

Andrew Mertens wrote:If its a well bolted sport route with easy climbing to the first bolt, how about down-whipping? Just fall between the bolts until you get to the last one, then unclip and down climb. Seems safer to me than the fifi hook if you are unwilling to leave a biner.

Down whipping!!! No thanks! A bail biner sounds much safer.

Wow!!! Yeah last and final resort for me! I am all about the bail biner or trailing a 2nd rope.

I Cant imagine rappealling down a route that has a couple of ledges. Accidental standing and unweighting the rope a little and POP!!! Here comes your rope! And your stuck on the ledge.

What are those fifi hooks rated for? i cant imagine more that 3-5kn.

regarding the Sketch Hook rappel (fifi/bungee method), i agree with Justin that its value is in doing full-length raps on a single strand (i'd never heard of it considered/used otherwise beyond that video demo, though it might be; but for sure, if you're less than a half-rope length up, just leave a 'biner). i've always considered it extremely generous when people tell me "your life is worth more than $5" (or whatever), but in the case of sport routes, yeah, leaving a 'biner seems the way to go.

seems to me that the sketch hook is something to throw in your pack when you're really hoping/thinking you're not going to have to rap down, like a big route with a walk-off the other side, and you aren't bringing a second rope. and if you're wrong, you're damn careful about not unweighting the rope while the second raps (you have the first climber backed-up).

How can you back up the first climber if you only have one rope?

As far as bailing off sport routes, much safer to thread a sewn sling through the bolt, then thread the rope through the sling, tie one of the rope ends to the sling, and rappel (note, no lowering off here!). Then when you get down just pull the rope end tied to the sling and voila. Just make sure you've tied the rope in such a way that you don't have to pull the sewn part through the bolt.

Not ideal, but much safer than the fifi option!

Jason Holliday wrote:How can you back up the first climber if you only have one rope?

biner

Thats sweet, Im gonna use it! Look for my name in the climbing accidents section.

Using a Fifi hook and a rap ring to rig a pull-down single line rappel is one of the techniques outlined in On Rope (Ch4, Rigging). The book does advise not letting the rope become unweighted until you are ready to retrieve the rope.

Andrew Mertens wrote:If its a well bolted sport route with easy climbing to the first bolt, how about down-whipping? Just fall between the bolts until you get to the last one, then unclip and down climb. Seems safer to me than the fifi hook if you are unwilling to leave a biner.

Jumpcleaning is a tactic I have had to use a lot... It can be actually fun if you have a belayer that gives a nice soft catch but otherwise it can be pretty painful.

That's a pretty creative trick but I'm not sure why anyone would really need to do it. Any time I buy any kind of biner I know there is a chance that it will end up staying on a climb someday.

JLP wrote:How many letter grades out of your league do you have to be on a bolted sport route to have to leave a biner? Why is it the same people are using fifi hooks?

I don't think it's all that uncommon to have to leave a biner; I've done it plenty of times on routes that are below my redpoint limit for a variety of reasons. A couple were because the "sport" route I was on actually required a piece or two of trad gear that the guide book didn't mention, or a dicey slab section was wet and unclimbable, or I was just gassed at the end of a long day.

I honestly don't see it as that big of a deal, and I have found enough booty 'biners over the years that I always carry one with me in case something comes up and I need to just lower off. If the prospect of leaving $6 on a route is cause enough for you to resort to some sketchy lowering bullshit like a fifi hook on a rubber band, you should probably re-assess your commitment to the sport.

I just leave an 80's oval but the fifi method looks fine. I would do it without the elastic and just whip the rope till it comes off the bolt hanger, And keep the rope weighted anyways.

100% agree.

Seriously, a new biner costs about as much as a happy meal at Mcdonalds! I haven't even been climbing that long and I would just leave a biner for god sakes.

Climbing isn't a cheap sport and even I know if you find yourself having to leave lots of biners behind then you should probably stop trying such difficult routes.

See, this is why we need permadraws everywhere.

I'm a scared climber, always backing off of trad and sport routes (at least I always lead them).

I put a sling through the bolt and then run my rope through the ends of the sling. The end of the rope that runs through first loops down to the ground and back up to the sling, where I tie it to the end of the sling.

(three strands of the same rope dangling from the bolt)

Proceed to rap. Then pull the cord out of the sling and everything fall to the ground. Nothing left behind and fairly safe.

WuHa!

Stich wrote:See, this is why we need permadraws everywhere.

That's awesome Stich.

JLP wrote:How many letter grades out of your league do you have to be on a bolted sport route to have to leave a biner? Why is it the same people are using fifi hooks?

Storm comes in, partner needs to go home now, something broke...

Just frig your way up the sport route, clip, take, whew, take, clip, repeat and bail off the anchor. Problem solved. Most crags can also afford you access to the insane line you can't climb via a nearby route within your abilities.

Have you buddy send up the clip stick. Clip those damn draws above you while clipped directly into the bolt so your belayer can pay out slack. Make it a hang dog epic! Don't retreat.

Or lower off your draws up until that point and start the perma-draw installation at this route. It would be nicer if you put all of your draws with the same color biners and dog bones, though.