gear placement question

so i've heard a lot about aid climbing as a means to practice gear placement for trad climbing. i know there really isn't a simple answer to his question, but if i can hang on a piece how safe is it to assume i can also whip on it?

there is no simple answer.

what I've learned most so far was "oh man I can't believe that held!" or "holy crap that looked good, I can't believe it shifted"

When you have to stand on every piece you learn a lot pretty quick but it still is no 100% it will hold a whip.

how do you know if anything will hold a whip?

I don't think you can ever be 100 percent that something will hold a whip.. There could be micro fractures in the rock, bad cam, Bad wire, freak weird things can happen...

This is not a 100 percent safe sport, if you want something safer take up underwater basket weaving.

Jasmine Kall wrote:I don't think you can ever be 100 percent that something will hold a whip.. There could be micro fractures in the rock, bad cam, Bad wire, freak weird things can happen... This is not a 100 percent safe sport, if you want something safer take up underwater basket weaving.

Too much of a drowning risk.

If you hang on it and it holds, you know it is good enough to hang on. If you whip on it and it holds, you know it is good enough to whip on.

Damn, that was easy. Give me another one.

Jasmine Kall wrote:I don't think you can ever be 100 percent that something will hold a whip.. There could be micro fractures in the rock, bad cam, Bad wire, freak weird things can happen... This is not a 100 percent safe sport, if you want something safer take up underwater basket weaving.

What about extreme ironing?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extre…

Too much of a risk of electrocution because I will be all wet from underwater basket weaving...

Jon Ruland wrote:so i've heard a lot about aid climbing as a means to practice gear placement for trad climbing. i know there really isn't a simple answer to his question, but if i can hang on a piece how safe is it to assume i can also whip on it?

I have heard that if a cam holds your body weight, it will hold a fall. Nuts are another story.

Jon Ruland wrote:but if i can hang on a piece how safe is it to assume i can also whip on it?

You can never be sure but replace the word "hang" with "bounce test" and you have a pretty good idea.

Jake Sahl wrote: I have heard that if a cam holds your body weight, it will hold a fall. Nuts are another story.

No offense, but that doesn't make sense. There are too many variables in a placement to definitively ascertain whether a marginal placement that holds body weight will also hold a fall.

Jake Sahl wrote: I have heard that if a cam holds your body weight, it will hold a fall. Nuts are another story.

false.

Greg D wrote:If you hang on it and it holds, you know it is good enough to hang on. If you whip on it and it holds, you know it is good enough to whip on. Damn, that was easy. Give me another one.

Hey that makes a lot of sense! But you should probably revise your theorem to "If you whip on it and it holds, you know it was good enough to whip on. Who knows now?!"

Jake Sahl wrote: I have heard that if a cam holds your body weight, it will hold a fall. Nuts are another story.

Now I know that I can take a thirty foot fall on my shallow black alien placement with confidence. Thanks Jake!

Jonathan Clark wrote: Now I know that I can take a thirty foot fall on my shallow black alien placement with confidence. Thanks Jake!

Your black alien holds body weight? Wow!

I can hold my body weight...

Jon Ruland wrote:so i've heard a lot about aid climbing as a means to practice gear placement for trad climbing. i know there really isn't a simple answer to his question, but if i can hang on a piece how safe is it to assume i can also whip on it?

Back yourself up on a top rope and take some falls on your gear. That way if you rip a piece the top rope will catch your fall. It was the best thing I have done for my climbing.

Jon, you may be missing the point of the exercise. I aid climbed under supervision when learning to lead. I found that having to suspend my weight from each piece took my focus on the placements to a whole new level. Every time a piece shifted when I moved onto it, my resolve to place the next one perfectly grew. Tested my bladder control too.

No piece is ever 100%

My buddy was aiding and then stood on a cam for a couple of minutes then the rock failed and broke off a 4'x1' block then hit him on the way down. Which ended up in a rescue, not fun.

AID to lets you learn how to place gear and how it reacts when weighted.

Jasmine Kall wrote:Too much of a risk of electrocution because I will be all wet from underwater basket weaving...

Whoa! You just saved me from electrocution! I was just about to go do that...So you're more of the Extreme Cello playing type? It seems a lot less hazardous if you don't want to quit your passion of underwater basket weaving.

extreme-cello.com/

oh yeah just dont forget that after you weight a piece, its worth nothing...i'll gladly take them off your hands and dispose of them for you.
hell i'll even pay shipping