Vote: Worst approach trails on Mt. Lemmon???

While we're on this whole voting on Mt. Lemmon climbing stuff thing, I'd love to know which of our approach trails disgust you all the most.

Some of the approaches I've seen are totally eroding, while others braid out into so many social trails that large areas are being degraded. It's up to us to keep these approaches as safe and intact as possible for generations of climbers to come...

So I'm asking for your votes as an initial step towards getting a bunch of us together to get some solid trail work done in the near future. More on that later...

My top 5 are (in no particular order):

-Sunspot
-Punch and Judy Area
-Chessman
-Sky Valley
-Middle Earth/The Helmet
-The Ravens (ok, 6)

thanks for your 2cents, ~

~wolfy

The Steep and the Ravens come to mind first.

I haven't been out to the Steep in a little over a month, but I seem to remember it being pretty overgrown and convoluted once you turn onto the ridge trail. I remember wading through a patch of sharp bushes at one point. About 3/4 of the way to the crag from the turn-off there appears to be multiple paths people have taken.

The east side of the Ravens seems to be eroding quite a bit.

I love the idea of getting people out to cleanup areas/trails...but even after it's done we need to promote continued stewardship of the trails we all use.

Dan.Heacock wrote:The Steep and the Ravens come to mind first.

Steep was pretty bad 2 weeks ago. I didn't take my machete since it worsens my elbow tendonitis, but I really should have. Would be easy to lose the trail (if I hadn't been there 100 times).

I did do some trail work at the Tool Shed.

The "Tool Shed" that name kills me!!!

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Boothill which happens to be one of my favorite approaches but there is no shortage of people that don't want to climb there because of it giving the 1/4 (that's all it is) approach as the main reason.

Boodge, I was talking to Scott Ayers about where we should climb yesterday and he said South Park, I squawked about the approach and he told me he spent a lot of time working on the trail (or more so making one you could find) last week so I'm guessing it's at least slightly better.

Anyway, just figured I'd mention if it's in better shape now Scott's the reason.

Oh and everything upper mountain makes me feel very out of shape. I get up there with 25% less oxygen and 1/3 of my weight on my back and every time I wonder why I'm huffin like I have COPD. Lake of oxygen is humbling no matter how good of shape you're in. I understand why people train at elevation.

Jimbo wrote:The "Tool Shed" that name kills me!!!

EFR and Cres think that Josie came up with that name........ but it was actually Jesse S. He's almost as funny as you !

Thanks for all the input everyone. Dan, I agree with you that it is up to us to pass on good stewardship to the next generation.

Anyone else want to chime in on their least favorite or eye-sore-of-a-trail?

Definitely the Ravens, both sides really. Last time I "scrambled" down there I managed to dislodge a huge rock that went sliding down towards my compadres. Scary! That approach is like a steep, loose, giant teetering rock filled, slip and slide.

The same thing happened to Joe S at the Ravens. A huge block slid down and landed on his arm, turning a climbing day into a visit to the hospital.

I guess I've just come to assume 'climbers trail' means a loose, poorly maintained trail and don't think too much about it. But with a long term view towards erosion prevention, I can see how a little maintainence will go a long way. I'd be glad to help whenever I can, Andy.

A few I can think of that could use some work -

-Punch and Judy/Anduriel Towrer/Canine and Lobos area
-Butterfly Wall
-Chessman

The Outback, Iranian wall, Panorama wall, and Friction rock. Are you planning on doing some trail maintenance?

Hands down, Red Diamond Wall.

Jimbo wrote:Hands down, Red Diamond Wall.

Should be pretty easily accessible from the Smallblock trail.

Looks like I have some fireline training to be had, and to sharpen up those ole fire tools. Want to really get that trail ironed out at Middle Earth, it's horrid.

JBak, if not we could chisel some towers out of the way to ease the approach.

60 second wall gets my vote. I have yet to do this approach in less than 70 seconds!

Haha nice one Jeff! Seems like it always takes me about 5 minutes just to decide how to get down to the damn thing!

Jim, it's actually pretty easy hiking to Red Diamond via the "Smallblock" (that is, park higher than San Pedro and walk up) approach, as Jbak suggested.

Spence-let me know when you're headed to Middle Earth, I'd love to help out.

Whew! Sounds like we have some work to do. Personally, I'd like to focus my efforts on those areas with legitimate erosion, social-trail proliferation, and safety issues. Among these, those that receive the highest traffic volume are priorities. The rest can come later...

I know well the circular idiocy that permeates the Forest Circus-I used to work for them. I've read the posts and gotten the local history lesson first hand, so I'm also well aware of the USFS clearance issues around here. Nevertheless, I'm going to do my best to engage them in what we're doing up on Lemmon. (I know, I know...gun aimed at foot, right?). But the fact of the matter is that climbers are going to be doing what they do for a long, long time to come. Sustainable trails are/will be needed. Having them on our side with this could be really useful.

Now, rest assured that in my dealings with the USFS I will NOT give away the names/locations of any of your favorite projects (they could probably find them with a couple mouse-clicks anyhow) until some sort of working relationship has been officially forged. Nor will I go so far as to place myself or anyone working on trails or climbing at nearby rocks in legal jeopardy.

This is all a work in progress and I haven't had an initial meeting with the USFS yet. I'm open to any suggestions, ideas, etc on this. Please let me know!

Thanks for all your input,

Andy

I will start working on that trail when I get back from my trip it is mostly lopping the existing trail shoring up switchbacks and cairning up the trail in some areas that are overgrown. It is looking like the end of November or so. Not to get off subject what did you do for the Forest Service Andy?

Sounds good Spence, I'll lend a hand. Shoot me a PM when you are getting close to working on it. I worked Bio-tech on the Pike NF up in CO.

Anything Karl Rickson put up. Every time I get beat to hell on an approach and retreat with my tail between my legs it seems to be a Karl Rickson area. The latest was Hell's Hole in Pinalenos.

As a trails contractor for the NFS and segment steward for the Arizona Trail, I've done quite a bit of trailwork up in the Catalinas. On site visits, I've had conversations with Gregg Sasek, the current trails foreman for Catalina district, Matt Dehlavi, the previous trails guy, and Rachel Hohl, former dispersed lands recreation manager for the Catalina district, about climbing trails on Mt. Lemmon. I told them that few are sustainable and some are hazardous. Consensus among the land managers seems to be that officially sanctioned maintenance on climbing trails would add them to the official register of trails in Coronado National Forest. That would mean that they would be subject to clearance according to the National Environmental Protection Act (NEPA), a lengthy process which requires examination from a Forest Biologist, Archaeologist, public comment, and lots of paperwork. It would also be perhaps opening the Forest to liability in the event of a climbing accident (the "put a fence around your pool principle"). So it seems to work for the forest to ignore the climbing, but if a group of folks headed out there with picks and McLeods, you might get some unwanted notice. I'm all for trail maintenance, it's how I make my living, but it's probably best to keep it on the down low.

By the way, Rivendale and Forgotten wall both have pretty rough approaches.