The Road Home(stead)

I am willing to help as well, but September is bad for me... 1st, 2nd or 3rd weekend in October?

All of September is is bad for me too.

Oct looks good tho'.

Ah yes, labor work in the sun! It will be a lot cooler in October than September and it looks like more people can help in October.

How does the first weekend sound? October 2 & 3.

October 2nd & 3rd sounds good to me.

Works for me.

Folks,

I've been working on finding out some details related to the road with the land managers.

Here's what I've found out so far:

• BLM lands are to be used as they are found; no unauthorized improvements are allowed. (State Trust lands have similar use policies)
• A Right of Way Authorization is necessary in order to do any road work. These are only given out in certain, restricted situations and evidently the desire to access a casual, unofficial recreational spot doesn't qualify for getting one. I was told that nobody has such authorization for that two-track road, not even the local ranchers or private landowners.
• Putting shovel to dirt, trimming foliage, infilling with foreign materials or objects, digging native materials out, moving native materials or items from one point to another, etc., in an effort to improve the road without authorization may lead to some serious issues, not the least of which is being charged with trespassing.
• If the road becomes difficult to traverse or impassable, well then, it's evidently going to remain that way.

And:

• The occasional adjacent rock tossed into a rut to get a vehicle across a bad spot seems to be the usual and traditional way to deal with those situations. (It was pretty clear that "adjacent rock" meant one or two toaster sized sorts of thing that can be moved by one person, not wheelbarrows full of stones)
• I have contacted the Access Fund and have asked them what their thoughts are on the best approach for the community is given the interest in the climbing resource.

Along with everybody else, I find it frustrating that we probably can't and shouldn't just fix the road as some are suggesting and maintain it ourselves. On the other hand, the management protocols are set up to protect the public's land, the foliage, the cultural resources, watershed, etc., or so it was explained to me. Based on what I heard in my conversations, the community's reserve, patience, and proactive approach in this matter is appreciated and reflects positively.

Meantime, the Concerned Climbers continues to look into this and I'd encourage any and all to keep discussing here and elsewhere how to best approach and work with the underlying landowners and managers.

I think it would be a great idea for a get together out there soon to discuss things in person. Will it be the 2nd and 3rd of October then?

Thanks,

Fred

Fred,

I feel that it is not necessary to try and improve the whole road, only the area that its really bad. So on that very small piece of road there who do we need to talk/gravel/beg to slightly improve the road. Since you are already elbow deep in this land partitions BS.

PM

Pat,

Fred's statement above applies to that very small piece of road specifically. One to two toaster-sized rocks are all we get. Period.

It is unfortunate, but if we want long-term access to be possible, we can't step on the BLM's toes now.

Anybody got a helicopter?

EDIT to add: I'm still up for the get-together there on October 2-3. It'll be nice to chat about all this stuff face-to-face. Oh, and we could climb, too! Steph and I may need a ride up the hill, however...

I'm available for Oct 2nd and have a Wrangler Jeep that smiles at that road....

Linda

Fred,

Thanks for providing us with that information.

Luke

Pat,

Fred AmRhein wrote: Just an FYI on the land ownership and management agencies along the road. It's State Trust Land for a short portion (About 1/4 mile or so right off the highway) and then BLM land for a long while. The rough part of the road in that drainage is BLM land based on the maps and research I've done. After the long ridge portion there is a checkerboard of private (gate and corral areas) and BLM lands. The parking area and some of the lower canyon climbing is on private land.

So if it is BLM RED, is there someone we can talk to. To try and plead our case?

Fred is better poised to comment on this strategy, but, I would think the more individual contacts, especially letters, to the BLM regarding the road situation, the better the chance of getting it improved.

However, sometimes a strategy like that backfires and a flood of letters just gets the land managers back up. Othertimes, public officials pay great attention to personalized contact. Which is why I say Fred is better poised to comment on the best strategy, other than the obvious one which is do nothing to tick off the BLM.

Unfortunately, many climbers are card carrying members of the Fxxx You, I'll do what I want club. So I'd say it's highly likely someone sometime will work the road over. So you homesteaders best pass the word around as much as you can.

Paul Davidson wrote: However, sometimes a strategy like that backfires and a flood of letters just gets the land managers back up.

Certainly possible and a good reason to make sure one has a recreation permit to cross through the State Trust Land. Go here to get one:

land.state.az.us/programs/n…

I think that the BLM or Forest service considers the person or group who alters a road as being liable for anything that happens on it as a result of the alteration. Any move in this direction will need a lot of follow through in the future.

B

Thanks, Fred!

Pat Mac wrote:So if it is BLM RED, is there someone we can talk to. To try and plead our case?

Pat,

I've been in contact with the BLM office in Tucson that has jurisdiction over that area/road and spoken to one of their officials who oversees the roads and land use. Essentially, I was told how to approach recreating on the land and that doing any maintenance/modifications other than tossing a rock in a rut in a bad spot on a road needs specific authorization. Unfortunately, casual use of a road to get to an unofficial recreational spot evidently does not qualify one to get such authorization.

This is one of the reasons that I've posted up that I'm talking about the details with the Access Fund about this issue. They have had to deal with this sort of thing over the years and I'm hopeful that they will have some valuable insight to help us at the local level.

I guess my thought at this point is that it's worthwhile to work at consulting with the AF over the next few weeks before sending letters or making individual phone calls. It may of course come to that, but right now my personal preference is to do some homework, consult the national climber's advocacy group, and hopefully leverage any concerted efforts or agency contacts.

I have sent the AF a detailed map of the area showing the road/crag and other details about my conversations with the BLM land managers and asked for insight into how best to proceed.

I hope to have more info for everybody soon.

Fred

Thank you Fred.

Thanks a bunch, Fred!

Thanks Fred. Keep all of us posted!

Anybody still climbing Oct 2-3 weekend? I'd love to get out there soon.