figure 8 v ATC
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When I belay I usually use a grigri but I also have an ATC. My favorite belay device I've ever used was an old sticht plate. Is there any benefit to using a figure 8 as opposed to tubular belay devices or a locking assist belay device? |
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No...if there were people would use them still. |
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I keep a figure 8 around only for long rappels so I don't get bounced around, but since it is not usually on my rack, when I do a climb with a long rappel, I usually forget to bring it anyway. |
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Figure 8's are still widely used in some parts of Europe, but as far as I can tell they have no real advantages besides being cheap and relatively easy to manufacture. Stick with an ATC. |
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The Rescue-8 serves as a lowest common denominator friction device capable for personal load, rescue load, and a multi-point load distributor that won't clutch rigging for a rescue-loaded anchor. The R-8 has ears for a rope lock-off, though it can lead to freezing the system if you hop an ear. |
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8's are great for rapping in caving, ropes course, and rescue situations where they aren't called upon often for belaying. |
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The 8 will also put the twisty kinky in your rope. |
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Evan1984 wrote:8's are great for rapping in caving, ropes course, and rescue situations where they aren't called u Also, to belay with them, it is best to just feed a bite through the small end and clip with a carabiner rather than try to belay in the rapping orientation. EvanThat is what I have heard, use the small loop like a stitch plate, I have never tried it. Anyone? |
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Yeah used to use the 8 as a sticht plate if I had an icy rope but unless you attach the 8 to your locker via a small piece of cord (like the ATC keeper cable does), it will move all around on the rope so belaying from above the 8 will drop down the rope unless corded, also all of those rounded surfaces of the biner and the 8 don't offer a lot of friction, or I should say a lot of bite. |
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I saw some people belaying with one of those big rescue 8 devices in maple canyon. They weren't even belaying out of smaller circle meaning it was threaded just like it would be if they were rappelling. Not surprisingly, one guy got dropped to the ground and everybody around that whole area heard it. Luckily there weren't any major injuries and they left soon after. |
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Tyson Anderson wrote: I saw some people belaying with one of those big rescue 8 devices in maple canyon. They weren't even belaying out of smaller circle meaning it was threaded just like it would be if they were rappelling.The correct way to belay is with the small end and I find it best to clip a biner through the big end and my harness to keep it from riding up the rope while taking slack. You should never belay while in the rappel configuration. |
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I use an ATC or a munter hitch (note a munter hitch will kink your ropes). |
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Joe Ludlow wrote: From my personal experience, 8's tend to be very poor for caving rappels due to the fact that they are difficult to lock off without gumming up the works (or if they are, please let me know how, I would be honestly curious). Frequently on caving you have to do a changeover from rappel to jumars, so using a rack would be preferable as far as I am concerned. Eights are real easy to lock off. Email me if you want a diagram or pictures. bairdas AT gmail DOT com |
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It is rare to see climbers belaying or rappelling with a Figure 8 these days, especially since 8s have been known to break through the sleeve of a locked carabiner (cross loading). |
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I learned to climb years ago on a figure 8 and have never felt the need to switch to an ATC. I currently use a Black Diamond Super 8. That being said, they aren't for everyone. To add some clarity to a couple of statements made above: |
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Eh, sounds like most of us are just americans that dont use them as sort of the standard default. |
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Figure 8's and similar rappel devices are used a lot in canyoneering because they are easy to rig and unclip while treading in a pool of water while wearing neoprene gloves. This is especially true in high flow water canyons. There are similar devices that offer varying friction options. These devices include the petzl pirana, sterling ats, rich carlson's totem, and others which I am not familiar with like the fisk for work at height jobs. Rock exotica has its own model as well. |
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Spri wrote:Eh, sounds like most of us are just americans that dont use them as sort of the standard default. I've heard that some alpinists like them because they feed frozen ropes better, and that they can do better on smaller diameter ropes. If you do it right, there is also zero chance of dropping them. I think there are some advantages. Personally, I dislike them for belaying, which is the biggest turn off, imo.A friend of mine who is a guide uses a camp ovo (or Kong GiGi.) I asked why he uses it and he replied that the rope feed is a lot easier than a standard tube device, especially when belaying from above with an autoblock. I went ahead and got myself one to play with to see if he's right. This I think would be the best middle ground as the slot openings would be wide enough to handle frozen or dirty ropes while accomplishing all the needs of rope management (rapping and belaying.) |
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Works for larger diameter of ropes outside of climbing environment as well. |
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Overall=ATC |
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Trey M wrote:Is there any benefit to using a figure 8 as opposed to tubular belay devices or a locking assist belay device?IF (and it is a big if) you know what you are doing, there is a massive benefit to using a fig-8 - they allow you to give super-soft catches. That said, you are unlikely to find many climbers who regularly use them for sport belaying and are expert in holding falls with them, apart from in some European countries. I had the distinct pleasure of falling off a route in the Costa Blanca some years ago being belayed with one by an extremely capable female Dutch climber and can honestly say it was probably the best 'soft catch' I've experienced climbing outdoors. However, despite recognising the clear benefits, I don't use one. With 17 years experience of using an ATC and a dozen years using a GriGri, I'd prefer to stick with them rather than try to learn another skill from scratch. |