Stolen gear @ The Pit.....AGAIN!!!

Derek Lawrence wrote: I generally stay out of these gripe sessions but gotta call BS when i see it... Chek out the photos on this page boonespeed.com/gallery.html… LOTSA fixed draws and extended draws on Jumbo Love... Sharma only has one on either side of his harness (which i would guess is to clip in direct if needed)

Out of interest are they "fixed" are are they just pre-placed to be removed when he's done with the climb? Of course that leaves the aspect of how long the climb will take to consider.

And I guess if you can steal the draws off a 5.15b climb you're welcome to them!!! :o)

Musashi wrote:So did everybody out there not see "Guideline #1: don't be a jerk" Lots of reply's, and not a single one helpful.

Don't get all defensive now, I personally have no problem with hung draws at [SPORT] crags. But, did you really think that by starting this thread that you would get "helpful" input as to where the gear is? I highly doubt it.

Musashi wrote:And for any of you who have been there and say that you never saw any draws hanging, then it is time get a new perscription, because there has ALWAYS been draws hanging on routes at The Pit. And there still is today.

While this may be true (other than the prescription part), I have only seen hung draws on these two routes over the last couple years.

I hope you get the draws back.

Zeke wrote: Fixed draws or no, The Pit is a gym.

First off, Jacks Canyon is a gym. The pit is not a gym. And even if it is a gym, do you leave your shit at the gym on a daily basis? And who ever made it acceptable for an outdoor area to be a gym? "The Pit is a gym" is not an excuse to leave your shit on routes for an extended period of time.

The only reason for chain draws is that the route is too overhung to clean. There are very few routes like that in Arizona, and The Joker is not one of them. Take your shit with you when you go... That being said, people that take chains, beaners or quicklinks off of anchors are jerks.

Props to the person that stripped the chain draws. More props if the person that took the gear actually reveals their identity and gives Musashi his gear back.

-Eddie

This post hasn't been a comopletely pointless endeavor. While it is disappointing to read grammatically incorrect cheap shots taken at my close friends, I think that this thread has served its purpose. Climbing ethics are complicated and controversial and different disciplines and crags have to have an established ethic that is upheld by consensus. I wouldn't have left my draws hanging on No Joke had I realized that there was this much animosity in the climbing community. I was only hoping to send my first 5.13 sport route at one of my local crags. I hung these draws and felt that I was doing an acceptable thing and facilitating others in doing the route as well. Theft is theft and the people who stripped these routes know what they did. There are far more effective tactics to make an ethical statement.

I highly doubt it was a statement of climbing ethics....it was just some jerk that stole your stuff. And that sucks...

I'd love to live in a world where you could leave your stuff out and have it there the next day, but we don't. So as long as folks keep leaving out their toys, they will get stolen. Plain and simple, regardless of everyone's stance on ethics.

Again hard lesson to learn, but climbing isn't above the same rules of humanity that bikers, boarders, skiiers everyone else on the planet deals with on a daily basis.

Thieves don't care if your Chris Sharma...

One more thing...I'm not sure what you and Musahi are talking about as far as the responses are concerned. For the most part no one has been overly mean or had "animosity" towards ya'll. There is no conspiracy, more just "don't leave your stuff out and it won't get stolen" or "was that necessary". If you wanna talk about "cheap shots" read the OP's posts...not very nice eh?

TDog mentions if its left there, its abondoned........just like all those bolts. In reality in the climbing community, taking someone elses gear is "theft". Maybe not in the legal sense but in the ethical sense of our community.

Want to make a statement about fixed draws. Remove them and leave them in a pile at the base of the route. THAT is making a statement. If you really want to make that statement, remove the draws when they are re-established, and LEAVE them at the base of the route in a pile. Taking the draws just means that you wanted to take them and leaves no message except that you are a prick.

chuck claude wrote: Taking the draws just means that you wanted to take them and leaves no messege except that you are a prick.

+10...that about sums it up.

chuck claude wrote: Want to make a statement about fixed draws. Remove them and leave them in a pile at the base of the route. THAT is making a statement. If you really want to make that statement, remove the draws when they are re-established, and LEAVE them at the base of the route in a pile. Taking the draws just means that you wanted to take them and leaves no message except that you are a prick.

Exactly. So, who is writing the new MP forum algorithm that automatically posts Chuck's remark in response to the once-monthly post about stolen draws?

ONLY if we can include an algorithm for the what cam, what rope, what route threads too!!! HAHAHA!!

......"And for any of you who have been there and say that you never saw any draws hanging, then it is time get a new perscription, because there has ALWAYS been draws hanging on routes at The Pit. And there still is today."

"Slingfest" is the only ALWAYS that I know about.

Steve

1. stealing gear is not environmentalism. picking up trash at the crag is.

2. you should find out who you are trash-talking before you lay down a bunch of ethical back-talk. the people you stole from have put up routes, donating their time and money for the routes you enjoy.

3. purity is relative. are you free-soloing the regular northwest face? doubtful. does that make you a gym-rat-wanker? no.

4. next time you are at the pit, hanging from someone else's bolts and chains, say a thank you and GROW UP.

5. then, quietly leave without stealing anything.

Eddie Brown wrote: First off, Jacks Canyon is a gym. The pit is not a gym. And even if it is a gym, do you leave your shit at the gym on a daily basis? And who ever made it acceptable for an outdoor area to be a gym? "The Pit is a gym" is not an excuse to leave your shit on routes for an extended period of time. The only reason for chain draws is that the route is too overhung to clean. There are very few routes like that in Arizona, and The Joker is not one of them. Take your shit with you when you go... That being said, people that take chains, beaners or quicklinks off of anchors are jerks. Props to the person that stripped the chain draws. More props if the person that took the gear actually reveals their identity and gives Musashi his gear back. -Eddie

Hey, I didn't leave a thing there. And I love the whole Pit is better than Jacks argument. You know why people slag on Jacks, it's because it's not a fifteen minute drive from Flag. A bunch of muscle flexing drama kings gang banging a handful of fixed gear climbs a mere stones throw away from town? Sounds like a gym to me.

And the winner is....

chuck claude wrote:TDog mentions if its left there, its abondoned........just like all those bolts. In reality in the climbing community, taking someone elses gear is "theft". Maybe not in the legal sense but in the ethical sense of our community. Want to make a statement about fixed draws. Remove them and leave them in a pile at the base of the route. THAT is making a statement. If you really want to make that statement, remove the draws when they are re-established, and LEAVE them at the base of the route in a pile. Taking the draws just means that you wanted to take them and leaves no message except that you are a prick.

Great response, well stated. Stealing gear is supper lame and should never be the way to send an "ethics" message. F**K, I'd rather see 100 threads on MP with bitching about the hung draws rather than people posting theirs were stolen.

Thieves: find a better way to send your message. This method just makes you a Jackass.

Well said Red!

Most of the draws on the joker were mine (with quicklinks on top). They were used draws that I didn't care much about. I don't think leaving fixed gear on popular climbs is that big of deal. Pretty common these days. I used to warm up on the joker and I didn't feel like cleaning the route.

All of the draws on the white wall were getting beaten down by the sun and use. They were probably unsafe and I'm glad someone stripped them. If someone fixed draws again that's great, if not...I don't care.

Scott McMahon wrote: Out of interest are they "fixed" are are they just pre-placed to be removed when he's done with the climb? Of course that leaves the aspect of how long the climb will take to consider. And I guess if you can steal the draws off a 5.15b climb you're welcome to them!!! :o)

Chris Sharma did not clean the draws of Jumbo Love when he sent it. He toped it out, untied and dropped the rope. I would put money on the fact that if you went out there you would see those draws hanging there still.

Personally I think the white wall should be fixed with chain or swage draws because of the sun exposure.

Actually let me append what I said. I'll stand by what I said above, but if you are making ethical statements in the dead of night, so to speak; you're a coward. Ethical debates should be taken up publically; but away from the limelight of of the general public and land managers. What the world doesn't need are more idiots like Ken Nichols.

Aimee Rose wrote: Chris Sharma did not clean the draws of Jumbo Love when he sent it. He toped it out, untied and dropped the rope. I would put money on the fact that if you went out there you would see those draws hanging there still. Personally I think the white wall should be fixed with chain or swage draws because of the sun exposure.

Most likely...but you won't see Chris posting about someone stealing draws from it. They probably don't mean much to him and like I said...if you can climb 15.5b you can have em!! LOL

chuck claude wrote:Actually let me append what I said. I'll stand by what I said above, but if you are making ethical statements in the dead of night, so to speak; you're a coward. Ethical debates should be taken up publically; but away from the limelight of of the general public and land managers. What the world doesn't need are more idiots like Ken Nichols.

Hey Claude are you from CT? I'm from Hartford, so I'm just curious...Ken is a paradox, he's done ALOT for CT climbing, but somewhere along the line he lost his mind. His ethics were great, but then he took it WAY too far.

hahaha...see the CT Ethics thread!

Not CT. Did spend about 12 years at the Gunks over a couple periods of time living on the right coast before moving to San Fran then Flag. Living on the right coast his antics reached almost unbelievable proportions.

I figure we should be a community so we should work our problems as a community instead of by vigalante tactics.