Starting to build a trad rack.

What are the essentials of a rack that will see most of its use at Rumbling Bald and Looking Glass?

Also, I could use more experience in the trad field so if any wise tradsters need a follow, let me know!

Hi Joe --

Have you done any trad leading yet, or at least seconded an experienced trad leader? The reason I ask is that if you've done this, I would think you'd have some idea of what the starting essentials would be. If you haven't gotten any mileage with someone more experienced, I strongly urge you to do so before you start buying gear and leading.

With that out of the way, here's my suggestions; this is based on the assumption that since you mention Looking Glass, you'll be doing at least some multi-pitch:

• full set of nuts (my preference is DMM Wallnuts)
• a good range of cams from small (.3 Camalot or equivalent) to medium (#2 Camalot or equivalent); larger cams could come in handy but probably aren't essential to start with
• Tricams -- .25, .5, 1, 1.5 are the most useful, especially in Looking Glass eyebrows
• 8-12 2' runners for extending your placements, and biners for making some or all of these into tripled draws
• cordelette or equivalent (I'm a fan of the Trango Alpine Equalizer) for building anchors at the top of a pitch

You'll want to augment this with doubles in some of the cam sizes, but it'll at least get you started.

JL

Oh how I've learned to love my tricams! Sure those springy thingies (as I think I've heard SaxFiend call them) are nice, but there's nothing like seeing a tricam spread into an eyebrow that sets my mind at ease...

also needed is 20 weight ball bearings and gauze pad. it's all ball bearings and gauze pad these days.

Thanks a lot for the help guys, I think I have an idea of what to go for.

Sax: An older tradster has taught me the basics of placement, anchorbuilding, gear selection, and such. Unfortunately, he taught me all of this on a small piece of rock out behind his house so I've never led trad at a crag. The reason I want to get a rack together is so when I find some people to go climbing with, besides my usual sport climbing partner, I'm not just mooching off someone's rack. I want to be able to contribute something as well.

But to set your minds at ease, fellas, I'm not just buying some shit and heading out to Looking Glass. I'm fully aware I need more experience and training before I start all that. But, your concern is appreciated!

Joe Virtanen wrote:Thanks a lot for the help guys, I think I have an idea of what to go for. Sax: An older tradster has taught me the basics of placement, anchorbuilding, gear selection, and such. Unfortunately, he taught me all of this on a small piece of rock out behind his house so I've never led trad at a crag. The reason I want to get a rack together is so when I find some people to go climbing with, besides my usual sport climbing partner, I'm not just mooching off someone's rack. I want to be able to contribute something as well. But to set your minds at ease, fellas, I'm not just buying some shit and heading out to Looking Glass. I'm fully aware I need more experience and training before I start all that. But, your concern is appreciated!

I think they were looking out for your wallet just as much as they were looking out for your safety.

Climbers racks vary hugely depending on where they climb and what they like to place. I get away with climbing in NC with just one set of ABC Huevos (stoppers), C4 from .5 to 2, TCU from purple to Orange, a Red Metolius 4cu, and tricams from .5 to 2. Now that I'm planning to climb out west and do some longer routes, I've had to add a lot to that rack.

I had a prodeal on BD C3's and was going to buy them. However, When I was guiding and using the company rack with All BD stuff, I hated the C3's. I learned with Metolius TCU's (read, that is what a mentor of mine had) so that is what I bought.

If I hadn't of climbed with them first, I would have bought the C3's because of the pro-deal and wasted a lot of money.

You are certainly not mooching off someones rack by climbing with them. Just try not to drop anything or get any of their shit stuck.

You really do need to climb a bit before you go out spending money on gear. It's a waste to go buy something that you've never placed before... you might hate it and it certainly isn't the only alternative.

Joe Virtanen wrote:The reason I want to get a rack together is so when I find some people to go climbing with, besides my usual sport climbing partner, I'm not just mooching off someone's rack. I want to be able to contribute something as well.

That's a considerate thought, but as Ryan W. said, I don't know anyone who'd think you were mooching by using their gear. I certainly wouldn't. Hooking up with two or three seasoned leaders will not only give you experience in evaluating their placements, you'll also get to try different gear (e.g., BD Camalots vs. Metolius TCUs) and decide what you like best before buying.

Sounds like you're on the right track. Next time I'm headed to Looking Glass, I'll touch base with you and see if you want to join me.

JL

saxfiend wrote:That's a considerate thought, but as Ryan W. said, I don't know anyone who'd think you were mooching by using their gear. I certainly wouldn't.

I would not think you were mooching, either. Do you have a rope? It would be considerate to always offer to climb on your rope if your partner brings the gear.

Sax: Sounds great! Thanks again for the help.

Mark: Yeah, I have a 6o meter rope and a full sport rack to my name. I'll definitely keep your idea of suggesting use of my rope in mind, as well.

The Great Arch at Stone Mountain awaits you my friend.

Had another question for you guys that just came to mind, actually. Do you think it would be a good idea, once I've figured out what cams I like, to buy some used ones off the forums and then send them in to metolius or BD (assuming they're those brands) to have them tested?

Or would it be better to avoid used gear starting out?

Joe Virtanen wrote:Had another question for you guys that just came to mind, actually. Do you think it would be a good idea, once I've figured out what cams I like, to buy some used ones off the forums and then send them in to metolius or BD (assuming they're those brands) to have them tested? Or would it be better to avoid used gear starting out?

Every piece on my first rack was bought used, and I sure didn't send it anywhere for testing! Unlike soft goods (ropes, etc.), any defect to cams or other pro is almost always readily apparent. The rule of thumb is that if it looks and functions fine, it is fine.

Spencer Purvis wrote:The Great Arch at Stone Mountain awaits you my friend.

Good suggestion, except that it's way too hot at Stone right now. I think something at Table Rock would be better this time of year.

JL

...and at Table Rock, since most of the routes are bolted, you can practice some pro placements between bolts with less risk of taking a tough fall if some gear pulls.

....for Western NC climbing, I start with a few offset nuts, a couple small tricams, small TCUs, Camalots to #3...bigger or smaller if necessary, sometimes doubling TCUs with offset TCUs/Mastercams...and the time tested plunger pro...

(Image stolen somewhere off of Supertopo I think.)

saxfiend wrote: Every piece on my first rack was bought used, and I sure didn't send it anywhere for testing! Unlike soft goods (ropes, etc.), any defect to cams or other pro is almost always readily apparent. The rule of thumb is that if it looks and functions fine, it is fine.

Ok, great, that'll save me a pretty penny if I can find some used gear then.

I was also thinking of Table, a guy I climb with at uni reccomended the East Face to me. The Great Arch also sounds good, it can pretty much take as much gear as you want to put in it right?

headlamp

Joe Virtanen wrote: The Great Arch also sounds good, it can pretty much take as much gear as you want to put in it right?

Getting to the tree ledge is the crux any way you look at it. Dont be fooled by the easy rating on "Entrance Crack" as it is a serious lead for anyone new to trad... especially slab climbing. Block route is a harder but safer alternative that still has some spice. The great arch is a great climb and will pretty much take as much gear as you wish to place but its a uniform size so it will eat up you're gear options fast. My 1st time leading at stone I got the piss scared out of me me on entrance crack and lead the great arch on by slinging the trees on pitch 1 and 2 and placing 1 or 2 tricams on pitch 3. Not the best aproach but hey it works. Also climb with caution at stone...just because most of the climbs are "bolted" they require the "head" of trad climbs b/c of their runnout nature. regarding gear choices Ive been a big BD fan for years and find their cams to be the best(opinions). Also on the east you will need more small to medium cams more than your #2's and #3's so if and when you double your rack id start with .5-1's. Hope this helps and keep in mind NC has some of the BEST rock in the country! When you get comfy of moderate trad go to Moores Wall and do Zoo View. It is a classic with lots of exposure and a sweet roof! Have fun and climb safe.

Start passive please. You will benefit more in the long run and get more self respect by understanding how simple the wedge system really is. Hexes and stoppers.

And please god tell someone else to tell Killis to shut up.

peace
B