suggestions: getting into winter alpinism

I'm a confident rock climber in the mountains and on easy snow/ice, but a relative gumby on mountain routes involving a lot of ice, mixed, snow, on-route bivies, glaciers, avi, real suffering, etc.

I'd like to gain the experience to tackle routes that involve all the above. I appreciate any suggestions to help point me in the right direction, regarding timing and objectives. Specifically, how are the Cascades and Canadian Rockies in the sept-dec vs. april-may. (i work summer in the Sierra and winter in Ohio).

Also, i'm suspicious that i should consider doing routes that are out of season based on some reccomendations?... any comments here?

I understand this is a very vague forum post on the very broad dicipline of climbing that is alpinism... sorry. Thanks in advance.

For out of season alpine routes, avy danger is your first concern. Make sure you have a really good handle on it - take some classes as well as reading and practice.

thanks w/the avi warning. taken an avi 1 and intend to take avi 2 before i embark on this learning experience. Also related, I take the prospect of falling into a crevasse veeery seriously after reading some stories and plan on preparing myself w/professional instruction.

good to hear. you can put me in the group of folks who are lucky to have survived their first winter mountaineering outings because of avy risks i shudder to think about. i learned more about avalanche safety in my first winter of backcountry ski touring than i did in 10 years of winter mountaineering, so you might consider getting into that scene though winter in ohio remove you from prime season.

glacier travel and crevasse rescue are trivial compared to avalanche safety. check out the book glacier travel and crevasse rescue by andy selters. a thorough understanding of that book, some time spent practicing prusiking, self arrest, building hauling systems, and then mileage are all you should need there.

You may already know this but Avalanche danger differs quite a bit from region to region. The Cascades most likely are substantially different from the Canadian Rockies due to the Coastal and Inter-continental snowpacks that may fall there.

So learning avalanche skills in one region does not always transfer 100% to other regions mainly due to the type of snow that falls.

if you winter in Ohio you can get into the pain and suffering quite well in the Adirondacks or Whites with a slight amount of travel. All the cold, snow, ice and vertical gain you could ever want and still be less than 10 miles from the parking lot. Can't get the glaciers or elevation but the rest is easily found.

Thanks for the beta so far.. all noted.

I've got an idea to get more responses.. (new forum)

Move to a place where you can ski.

Get a job working outside all winter. This will force you to learn to deal with discomfort, clothing issues, general all around suffering.

Avy safety is paramount. Another good book is "staying alive in avalance terrain" by Bruce Tremper.

Go climbing as much as you can in what others will call "bad" weather.

If this does not work, you are normal and should just keep rock-climbing in the sun and forget about it. Winter climbing is hard and it sucks a lot of the time.

My biggest mistake in getting into winter alpinism was not taking boot warmth seriously. Make sure you get a pair of good boots that are not too tight in the toes so that you can have good circulation and put toe warmers in if needed. I now have toes that got frostbite once and have gone numb on many subsequent outings from sensitivity. Also think about adding super gaitors, which add a layer of insulation over your boot. That can upgrade boots you may already own for warmth.

It has a lot to do with having the right gear and listening to your body when you do trial runs. Layers are important, if your core gets cold, your extremities will get colder because your body pulls the heat from your extremities to keep you internal core warm. All I can say is invest in good gear, including long underwear that wicks away moisture. It's also good to do what other members are saying...get some practice in subprime conditions. Go out in the severe cold and hike with a pack for half a day or full day.

I went snowshoing with a weighted pack when the normal temperature was -26 degrees here this winter as I wanted to try some of my new gear, including my new snowpants. Unfortunately, I forgot to consider and wear long underwear. Because of this moisture accumulated inside my Northface snowpants and Mountain Hardware down coat. After 2 1/2 hours I started to get cold because of the moisture next to my skin was not being wicked away. It wasn't severe enough to cause frostbite (believe me I've experienced that before), but if I stated out like that for a day it would have gotten worse. Trialruns like this are great learning opportunities. It's better to learn from a mistake on a trial run then on the real deal.