Dumb Diamond approach question

Researching Diamond approaches and descents, I read that if you want to take the North Face descent back to the base of the wall, you follow a a trail/ledge passage through Chasm Wall back to the Diamond.

Question: Is that easier than Chasm View raps? Then why isn't it a standard approach option?

Or, if it's worse than the raps, why is it the recommended descent?

Or is it just one of those personal preference things?

Its called the camel descent and it is a scree filled gully. rapping chasm view only gets you to broadway then have to traverse it and still rap the lower east face. most people that rap in from chasm view bivy there. hence not needing to return to the base of the wall.

Thanks Sal. I wasn't clear enough, though. I'm curious about using Camel as an approach to start the Diamond...not taking it all the way down as a descent.

If that leg of the Camel descent is reasonable, why isn't it considered a viable approach option? You don't have to face the shooting gallery of the North Chimney, and you don't have to hike quite as far up as the Chasm raps...not to mention doing the three raps.

I would recommend approaching via the N. Chimney, and descending by rappelling the Diamond. Unless you haven't been to the summit, in which case summit, then descend the N. Face, then hike down the trail. If you carry all your gear over, you don't need to use Camel gully to return to the lake.

But yes, to answer your question, SAL has it right. The raps take you to Broadway, and from there you'd need to traverse over to Crack of Delight and rap again. Camel gully takes you back to the base.

Anyone been up there in the last few days? What are conditions like?

-Scott

ED: I didn't see your last question. The camel gully does not take you to Broadway, and therefore does not bypass the N. Chimney. I wouldn't call it a shooting gallery, though, but I guess I haven't been up it this time of year.

because its a faster descent from the summit, not from the parking lot. its easier to approach via chasm lake.

not to say you couldnt.

its just more hiking up to the boudler field just to back down the scree hell. you would still have to climb the north chimney to reach broadway so you are just making more work and more rocks trundle. Take a hike up in to the cirque with all your beta and topos and have a look around. it will all come into perspective.

My opinion, for what is worth...You should approach the Diamond from the North Chimney via Chasm Lake. It is very easy climbing and not in my opinion as bad as it has been talked about on here. Yes it is chossy and yes people above us knocked rocks down, but it would have to be a hell of a lot better than hiking up 3/4 of the Diamond to rap back to Broadway. We ended up traversing over to the Diamond Raps to decend. They weren't bad, though you better have the topo in your pocket for this. We had it and still missed a rap station. It was 9 raps or so to the base of North Chimney(after also rapping COD). I probably took an hour or so to rap the whole thing.

The bivies at the Hilton Boulder and in the Cave are nice.

Hope this helps.

Doh. Think I get it. The Camel doesn't get you to Broadway; it goes all the way to Chasm Lake...not where you want to go.

Calirado wrote:why isn't it considered a viable approach option? You don't have to face the shooting gallery of the North Chimney, and you don't have to hike quite as far up as the Chasm raps...not to mention doing the three raps.

This is not correct :)

It would lead you only to the base of the N chimney and mills glacier. So really. Its more walking for nothing :)

Yah. Just realized that. Thanks!

Calirado,
The descent you choose should be based on where (if?) you left your gear at the base. If you bivy'd at the big boulders, take the Camel descent. It will dump you out right at the bivy spot... more or less. If you left gear close to the base of the N. Chimney, then descend via the Sidewalk: From the very lowest point of the ridge between Long's and Lady Washington, drop into a steep gully. The first 30' is 5.4 downclimbing or a quick rappel. Descend the gully until it closes out then step right (climber's left) onto a beautiful grassy "sidewalk". Put your hands in your pockets and stroll over to the glacier and your packs. Good picture of it:

.

Do the Diamond and LEF rappels as a last resort. Rapelling sucks.

Perhaps this photo will help:

This photo was taken several pitches up the Diamond looking north. Chasm View Wall is in the lower right with the boulder field above it. The Camel descent is off the photo just to the right which brings you back under the Diamond. Chasm View raps are far left of photo.

As you can see, Chasm View raps require a lot of elevation gain, then elevation loss to approach the Diamond. You would use the Camel descent if you summitted and left gear at Chasm Lake or after climbing routes on Chasm View Wall. What you do depends on your goals. For the quickest way to do the Diamond do the North Chimney approach and descend via the Diamond and Crack of Delight raps. Hike out the way you came in. Although if you get lost on the raps (like we did) this may not be the fastest way... at least the first time. If you want to summit, Chasm View raps and/or Camel descent may be part of your plan although North Chimney is still a good way to go when summiting.

If you decide to rap the face of the Diamond, Gillett's topo was helpful. He indicates where you angle slightly left or slightly right, and marks some features on it to look for (e.g. right facing dihedral). Also, knowing the approximate distances between rap stations helps.

I've done the Sidewalk descent twice after climbing Chasm View Wall - Mal's description is right on. There was a rap station one of the two times I've taken this descent - not sure if there is one set up at the moment.

General question for people here - how common is it for people to summit the Diamond, take the Cables rap, then rap Chasm view to Broadway, then continue to rap down Crack of Delight?

Kat A wrote:General question for people here - how common is it for people to summit the Diamond, take the Cables rap, then rap Chasm view to Broadway, then continue to rap down Crack of Delight?

That descent route had occurred to me, but after thinking about it I can't imagine anyone doing it too often.

I'll preface this by saying I've only been up the Diamond once, and took the NF raps to the Camel, and it worked just fine, especially since my partner and I were climbing on one rope.

To do the Cables/Chasm/CoD raps would require doubles, a good bit of walking, and 8 rappels (1 down the NF, 3 @ Chasm View, 4 down the CoD). If you brought double ropes, you could do just one extra rappel and pretty much eliminate walking by doing the 9 rappels down the Diamond/CoD rappel route. I imagine, if you wanted to summit, had doubles, lots of time, and left gear on Broadway that the Cables/Chasm/CoD rap route would be worthwhile.

Come to think of it, the trip report linked in this thread - dunn-westbay V .10 C3 - describes that descent route, I think, because the party wanted to summit but one of the climbers had gear on Broadway.

Just thought I would mention that this year we topped out on Table Ledge at the same time as some friends were starting the raps. We hiked over the top and rappelled the North Face, then descended the Camel gulley. We stopped to talk to two different people and were taking our time. We still beat the other team back to the bivys by close to :45 minutes. The rappells are not a faster option, but they are easier. Personally I would rather walk a bit farther in the sun then shiver on the wall hoping that all of your 8 rappels go smoothly.

Kat A wrote:General question for people here - how common is it for people to summit the Diamond, take the Cables rap, then rap Chasm view to Broadway, then continue to rap down Crack of Delight?

This really makes no sense as it is only a 30 minute easy hike to get from Chasm View to the base of the Camel. It will take you that long to get to the start of the COD raps if you are lucky.

To the OP...if you are considering climbing the Diamond this late in the season you had better be prepared for loose snow conditions in the N. Chimney and dress accordingly. Last year I didn't and suffered.

Kevin Stricker wrote:Just thought I would mention that this year we topped out on Table Ledge at the same time as some friends were starting the raps. We hiked over the top and rappelled the North Face, then descended the Camel gulley. We stopped to talk to two different people and were taking our time. We still beat the other team back to the bivys by close to :45 minutes. The rappells are not a faster option, but they are easier. Personally I would rather walk a bit farther in the sun then shiver on the wall hoping that all of your 8 rappels go smoothly.

+1

Somebody posted a reply saying they beat the rappers to the chasm by going down the north face. I have done this on every occasion I used the Camel Descent (six or seven times). Particularly if a couple parties get stacked up on the rappels. Another bonus is that a quick party can be off the wall and down the North Face raps in about 45 minutes and practically out of danger from storm and lightning. Two times I have watched (safely from chasm view) all hell finally break loose on the wall catching several rapping parties. We just cinched down our hoods and hopped down boulders and scree to our bivy. We were hiking around Chasm Lake when the last couple parties we'd climbed with hit the base of the North chimney.

Per the original post- if you use the Chasm View raps to access the Diamond you approach chasm view from the boulder field, not the camel. Its shorter and easier. With a bivy in one of the several flat spots at chasm view, this is a great way to do the wall, because after topping out, its a very quick jaunt back to your stuff and a pleasant walk down the boulderfield.

One more thing. A friend went in to do the diamond for the first time with some beta from me. The scene he described in the North Chimney (on a thursday) was appalling. A party had decided to pitch it out from the beginning and was ahead of everyone else. Many subsequent climbers soloed past them and berated this party for having a rope on because it was "dangerous" in that the rope could knock shit off on other parties. One particularly vocal douchebag then proceeded to knock a huge rock down the gulley himself moments later. To be clear: if you choose to climb under a party, no matter what they are doing, then you take your life into your own hands and they are not responsible for lopping your head off with a rock unless they chuck it off on purpose. Also, if you pass, you better be extra careful about what you do above them because, just like kindergarten, they were there first. If the roped up party felt better pitching it out then that is their prerogative. This party was from out of state, and I am sure they left feeling that all Colorado climbers must be fucking assholes.

I have done the Diamond over twenty times, including all but the hardest free routes, and I have soloed the entire North chimney only one time. I find that simul-climbing with a about 80 feet of rope between is the most safe and efficient thing to do because when arriving at the base of the diamond and your route it is very quick to switch into pitching it out and start the route. A bit of forethought and care can keep the rope from knocking shit off. At times, we've just continued up the D1 pillar (casual route, D1, Eroica) for a couple pitches and gotten a jump on everybody. I reckon with the time saved re-rigging to climb the wall, this methods loses almost no time over soloing.

Be cool to each other out there, because moments later they might be pulling together to rescue your ass. You never know.

chris Kalous wrote:At times, we've just continued up the D1 pillar (casual route, D1, Eroica) for a couple pitches and gotten a jump on everybody. I reckon with the time saved re-rigging to climb the wall, this methods loses almost no time over soloing. Be cool to each other out there, because moments later they might be pulling together to rescue your ass. You never know.

My partner and I simuled the North Chimney & D1 pillar to begin the casual route - this approach worked very well.

chris Kalous wrote: Be cool to each other out there, because moments later they might be pulling together to rescue your ass. You never know.

Spot on.