Bouldering Beta

There should be a standard convention next to each bouldering rating that has (TO) for top out and (HB) for high ball. It is helpful to know this information, and it is not always included in the text that is provided by the poster of the problem.

-Cheers-

yup,

and a yellow post-it note with move by move beta. and arrows pointing to locate where to put a 8 inch tick.

Seriously though, it would be nice to have a "Beta" section for a route or problem that could be hidden or exposed by default for a particular user. It's sometimes tough to know what to include in a problem description to make the posting useful and what is too much info.

There is a convention for this already Scarecrow. All bouldering problems are to be topped out if it's remotely possible. And, PG13=fairly dangerous, R=quite dangerous, X=death a real possibility.

Because of the nature of bouldering, most routes (other than traverses) carry a certain risk. Climb static, work on your endurance, and don't be afraid to down climb if need be.

Most routes on this site also have a height description (though I have to admit, people seem fairly bad at estimating height on here).

Neither of these would actually be too useful. Boulder problems are always topped out, unless there is an obvious reason they are not (a 'boulder problem' at the base of a cliff, for example). Designating PG, PG-13 and R/X isn't as important for boulder problems as it is for routes because you can easily determine for yourself at the base of the climb how much danger and commitment will be involved in climbing the problem.

wow.

I am not complaining at all. Just offering a friendly suggestion that I would find useful. Isn't that the point of this forum section???

Also, I am not looking for a 'beta' section telling step by step instructions on a climb. Where you got that from I have no idea...

Additionally, not all bouldering problems are top outs. I made the suggestion because I have experienced 'non-topouts' a lot recently.

Furthermore, the PG13, R, and X ratings I am aware of. But none of them mean highball, neccassarally. Many times they just refer to a really bad landing.

And I didn't join to complain...a friend pointed me to it and I think the info here is awesome. I don't understand the negative reaction from Mr. jables.

-cheers- (to the positive people out there anyway...)

With regards to this post, you will find in the Best of Boulder Bouldering, Ratings section in the beginning of that guide book a brief description of a system I actually created back in the late 1980s, (hb, and x's) to perhaps in some way warn climbers of the potential danger at hand when highball bouldering, a phrase a few of us started calling relatively difficult, airy and scary sends that took you to a height above the ground were a fall may have serious consequences, but not at a height where you definitely had no chance of surviving if you did fall. Around 1984 soon after completing the first free ascent of Rainbow Wall, rather then jumping directly into the sport climbing realm I more or less started to boulder out many of the height intimidating challenges, most notably, within the Eldo Cave and its surroundings. Later I would discover many airy boulders and blocks in Eldorado West, and the Flatirons, most notable on the western slopes of the Sacred Cliffs, it was then that the hb system really made sense and helped out in my documentation. I was surprised that in the movie Rocky Mountain Highball that there was no mention of the (hb) system especially when they filmed many of my highball, (hb) problems that I documented in my guide with the (hb) rating. Anyways it always made perfect sense to me to use this and I continued use it in the new Bouldering Colorado guide.

thanks bob. I own best of boulder bouldering; great book, use it a lot.

I have noticed the (hb) convention you created in various guides and websites, but I don't notice it on this site.

For example, on this page the climb Breashears' Crack is selected. What I am suggesting is that on the left-hand side of the screen, where the list of all the bouldering problems is located, there be (hb)(TO) after the rating. So it would look like: ***Breashears' Crack V1 (hb)(PG13)(TO), if indeed it was a highball, PG13 danger, and a top out (it isn't any of those).

I have noticed the PG13, R, X after the rating like I have above, but never a (hb) or (TO). I would find these two pieces of info helpful when perusing the site for problems I want to try.

-cheers-

Highball is a relative term, we all have our own definition of what a highball is relative to our own ability and acceptance of risk. In my opinion only, I don't think an HB next to a rating is going to make me do a problem or not, It is up to the climber to look at the problem in person for themselves and decide whether or not they feel up to it, have the head and can evaluate and accept the risks for themselves.

And in my opinion only as well , shouldn't all pebbles be topped out.

If not then should the first ascent mark the finishing holds or have it in the guidebook description so I know were to stop climbing. Or what if the rating system for pebbles went a step further and rated each move on the problem so if it was v9 but I only felt good on V3, I could do the moves to where the V9 moves started and get off the pebble before the moves get too high and hard. Should guidebook authors and first ascentionists take all the adventure out of life as possible?

I personally liked Gill's scale using B1 B2 and B3. Does anyone know if there are any good B3(TO)(HB)(PG13) problems out there?

High ball is certainly a realative term. But so is V3. I have climbed V3s that I thought were V1s, but also V3s that I thought were V5s.

About topping out. I agree, topping out is a very important part of bouldering. The reason I suggest this (TO) convention is just for that reason. I want to know if a climb has a (TO).

Well the Top-out indication doesn't seem to be very useful as most boulders you can top out and the few that you can't are usually clearly defined in the route description.

High-ball is such a relative term that having it in the database would just be a lot more mis-information and random comments on the problem.

Listing it in a guidebook totally makes sense as it is defined by one person and not a massive amount of people (like all of Horan's books, where He sets the parameters and can easily compare height/exposure across a number of boulders). Most routes have enough issues with ratings that adding something that is entirely subjective would just add to the confusion.

I agree that it would be nice to see that in the summary of routes, but in practice I don't think it will ever be used enough to gain merit. Not to mention the thousands of problems that would have to be updated that would never actually get changed.

My only desire is to have pictures of people climbing the problem so that we can actually understand the relative height and judge for ourselves.

I dont think there should be something next to the grade in the list of routes because that would clutter the area and we would have to provide a key for the different abbreviations but i do think these two things should be pointed out in the description if its highball (height feature and just stating its a highball in the description) and I have always assumed that is it doesnt say that there is no top out then it must be topped out. I have posted several boulder problems and in the description i always end with either top out or drop off, thats how i believe it should be done, any the info is easy to see that way. If there is a problem with a post you feel it doesnt convey the necessary info you can post a comment, and ask for the original poster to change it and even if it isnt changed it will be there in the comments for everyone to see. IMO.

I agree people dont need to be so negative about it just because they dont agree, sites like this improve through suggestions some will get rejected and some will be used, but people dont have to be rude about the suggestions that are not used or the suggestions they dont like.