Soloing

What I am really asking as you may see further down:

If you are so good that you can solo, why don't you do it alone? No rope, no gear, no people around?

this is my original post:
"Is there any reason I only see soloists on the weekend on the most popular routes/in the most popular areas? If you are that "hardcore" would you mind soloing when no one else is around (i.e. during the week) so that those of us that aren't to lazy to call a friend, don't have to drag your amazingly large ego to the ICU? just a thought..."

glad to see my blatant trash talk has added a little flavor to the day

Be kind now :)

Not from your neck of the woods, but there were times when I (in Moab) would go rope-soloing or aid-soloing simply because I couldn't find a partner. And that's in Moab, where damn near everyone climbs. But not everyone is willing to climb in 100 degree heat. So when your partner bails, it's hot, or you just want to work on self-reliance and self-rescue skills, I don't think there's anything wrong with soloing.

However, hogging the most popular routes at crowded areas by aid-soloing...that's not too cool. But I'll be damned if I decide to, say, go solo Moonlight Buttress, or another wall, and have somebody tell me that I don't have as much a right to climb it as a party of 2.

Just re-read your post, and it sounds like you're more frustrated with FREE-soloing. Adding that little word in front is necessary for semantic purposes.

Also, how many climbing injuries are due to free-soloing vs. rappelling accidents, etc.? (Not being a jerk here, I'm honestly asking this question. Does anybody have any data on the subject?) It seems like more of the accidents I have seen/read/heard of have been rappel-related.

When was the last time you had to take a soloist to the hospital (its seems its most likely body recovery if anything)?

Are you more offended by the example it sets or does it just make your palms sweaty? I am guessing they aren't in your way or they are passing you. If you are on the classics on the weekend, you are probably waiting in line anyhow.

I don't get it? Is it the sweaty palms?

PT

Because you see ALL types of climbers on the most popular routes on the weekends, DUHD DUDHDUHDHD. What you don't see are the 90% of other soloists who don't want to be seen... I'm not trying to pretend to be hardcore, I won't solo anything over 5.7 and tend to stick to the sub 5.6 range when I do it, but the most popular routes tend to be easy to moderate, have good access, and most people have weekends off. It's not an egomaniacle thing for everyone, you're projecting your own attitudes and feelings here...

JPFox wrote:Is there any reason I only see soloists on the weekend on the most popular routes/in the most popular areas?

It sounds like the problem is that you are climbing the most popular routes in the most popular areas on the weekend. Why are free soloists not allowed on these routes? Not trying to be a jerk here, but this just goes to show that a climber's worst enemy is any other other type of climber.

Anyway, who would drag our egos to the ICU if you weren't there?

Is there any reason I only see soloists on the weekend?

Do you work week days? That'd explain it...

ben kenobi wrote:Be Just re-read your post, and it sounds like you're more frustrated with FREE-soloing. Adding that little word in front is necessary for semantic purposes. Also, how many climbing injuries are due to free-soloing vs. rappelling accidents, etc.? (Not being a jerk here, I'm honestly asking this question. Does anybody have any data on the subject?) It seems like more of the accidents I have seen/read/heard of have been rappel-related.

When I posted on another thread to point out that someone had used the word "soloing" when "free soloing" would be more precise, I got flamed big time (i.e., I was being pedantic and "everyone" knew what was meant, etc.), so be careful.
On your question re: causes of accidents, there's a board in Eldorado Canyon that breaks down the various causes of accidents there. I don't think either soloing (i.e., falling while soloing) or rappelling are among the leading causes of accidents, but they're both on the board.
I've heard lots of people say that rappelling is the leasing cause of accidents (I understand that's not what you are saying above)--I don't think that's even close to being true. As I recall, in Eldo, leading call of accidents is leader falls (what I would expect and what I think lots of folks don't want to face up to), and they break that down into subtypes of causes (not enough pro placed, pro pulled).

The scree rescue is great, thanks "Buff"
to be more descriptive I did mean free-soloing, my fault
and as for body cleanup, I think I might still take time to scrape someone off the talus, even if it was only body recovery, as for sweaty palms, well...sure

Maybe I meant this, if you are so good that you can solo, why do it on a crag filled with scree-tripping line waiting , sweaty palmed gumbies (like myself apparently), I would think the greater joy of being able to climb a route sans rope and gear, would be to do it all by yourself, alone

I think one of the points he is trying to make might be that people who solo popular routes on the weekend may be doing it for the wrong reasons...
Does the cheap thrill of showing off in front of beginners outweigh the lifetime of mental trauma they will face if you fall?

Mental trauma and some severely stained shorts

JPFox wrote:If you are so good that you can solo, why don't you do it alone? No rope, no gear, no people around?

i'm not sure that everyone who free solos would claim to be 'so good' - just good enough to get away with what they're doing. and anyway, what makes free soloing or free soloists such a bother to the rest of the climbing community/you that they're not allowed to climb when other people are 'around'?

even if every free soloist made the effort to climb in remote, generally unvisited areas, there's no guarantee that somebody else wouldn't show up to climb on the same hunk of rock.

this seems to be a case of, as phil said, "a climber's worst enemy is any other other type of climber," or maybe just any other climber at the crag. either that or you just don't like that people choose to free solo, which is fine by me - i won't try to convince you of anything.

"If a soloist falls in the woods and there's nobody around to hear him, does he make a noise?"

Feel free to slam me if you are offended. Kind of a joke to make a point. Just wondering how many free soloist actually are climbing remote routes. I'm not sure cause I'm not there. And, by definition, if it is remote, few, if any others are around. Perhaps most free soloist are on remote unpopular routes.

Periodically, I free solo the flat irons. Sometimes I have the entire rock to myself, sometimes there are a dozen other people on it. I don't feel there is anything wrong with free soloing a flat iron with others around. On the other hand, I did not like it when a free soloist came up from behind and past us on the Bastille Crack. This feels different to me cause the line is much more defined and the soloist was climbing directly above us and we had no ability to move from our line in the unfortunate event he fell.

Anyone else have these mixed feeling?

Greg D wrote: On the other hand, I did not like it when a free soloist came up from behind and past us on the Bastille Crack. This feels different to me cause the line is much more defined and the soloist was climbing directly above us and we had no ability to move from our line in the unfortunate event he fell.

Greg, your argument is completely hypocritical. Free soloing above another party could have the same consequences regardless of the grade or directness of the line. You can't have it both ways. Jerk.

Greg D wrote: Jerk.

Remember rule #1. Careful, I just might flag you.

Dude, find an out-of-the-way, untrafficked thread to go off on a thread-solo. There are spectators here and watching your preening psychodrama, wondering if you're going to flame out, well, it's nerve wracking.

Shibumi.

Shawn Mitchell wrote:Dude, find an out-of-the-way, untrafficked thread to go off on a thread-solo. There are spectators here and watching your preening psychodrama, wondering if you're going to flame out, well, it's nerve wracking.

OMG classic!

I do not like free-soloists climbing above me. Not in eldo, not at lumpy or the flat irons. NO you may not pass me. Please go another way. Please don't start up a route that another party is on expecting to pass, this is rude. This is just how I feel. Please don't pass me.

why does anyone even respond to this jerk?

angus wrote:...NO you may not pass me. Please go another way.

Are you one of those people that drives at/below the speed limit in the left hand lane? One of those people that thinks, "I'm too scared to drive any faster; so you can't either."

I'll bet you are...

angus wrote:Please don't start up a route that another party is on expecting to pass, this is rude. This is just how I feel. Please don't pass me.

Are no roped climbers allowed to climb under your either? Or pass you? Don't forget that a roped climber is much more likely to drop a piece of gear on you than a soloist is to fall on you. Think about it. I get the feeling you don't do enough thinking about others; I think you're probably very ego-centric. That's just how I feel.

--Marc

sh!t happens, don't endanger other people that are already endangering themselves. I'm just saying passing people that you know are on the route is rude. just like passing a slow diver on a double yellow is RUDE.