My mentor dumped me

Hi!
I'm looking for a climbing partner. Preferably an experienced, male who doesn't mind climbing with a girl and is willing to teach me some things. I'd like to climb with someone who can show me some challenging climbs around the state this summer, and someone to mentor me as I begin to lead trad and sport.
My climbing partner kind of dumped me, so I'm out. but not down!
I would like someone single (hate working around an inflexible schedule!). I have the entire summer off (gotta love being a teacher!) So I can climb almost every day. I don't really like the crowds on the weekends, but a good day of climbing is awesome no matter what the day.

I never had a mentor when I learned how to climb, but I did have several partners that liked to teach what they knew. Most of what I learned was from self study and practice, with running the ideas and techniques by those friends. That keeps you from having to rely on a single mentor for everything, which is a big commitment.

Good luck in either case. It looks like you've been to some nice areas so far.

Jenny V, if you can make it to the Boulder Mountain Project Beer Night at the Dark Horse this Thursday. You will meet MANY climbers. I believe that climbers from Denver are carpooling so maybe that's an option. Denver also hosts the occasional MP Beer Nights as well. A great way of climber networking and "Beer, it's not just for breakfast".

As long as you know the safety basics (correct knot, brake hand 100% always, anchor redunancy, rope-end knots on long routes, safe belaying and rappelling techniques) you do not necessarily need a mentor. I have noticed several people over the years who felt the need to always have one. Typically, this seems to come from the ego of the person who brought them in. Which is ironic, because what we do is all about self-reliance.

My cadre of Douglas County inbreds is really ebbing at the moment. From gatherings of 6-10 folks at a time a little more than a year ago has dwindled to hard to get more than 2 to show up lately. Therefore, you are more than welcome to hook up with us. We all watch over each other, so any skills you may lack will be noticed and taught or corrected.

Perhaps you will someday hook-up with a consistent partner, but more likely you'll function like the vast majority of us and have a circle of buddies to interface with.

Right now, the DCCC is in limbo as they've closed Rampart Range Road at least until M-Day; and the Lord of the Wood is recuperating from hernia surgery. If you're interested, we could put you on the e-mail list.

Edit.- and please ignore my stupid moniker. It was the result of a liquor-induced whim (a phrase from a Frank Zappa song) and I'm stuck with it "for a while".

Jenny,

OK.. A Few things. READ CAREFULLY!

First, and foremost, the scarry part.

I think...In one of your photos you are top-roping off of what was an escape anchor I had to use becouse my partner freaked and I had to bail quick. In plain terms ...this was a MANKY/SHITTY ANCHOR!!!!!. One piece of mank webbing slung over a flake is NOT a top rope anchor!! The fact that your "mentor" DID NOT recognize this is concerning and shows alot about him. I am Glad you are alive and no one was hurt. I however consider this partly my fault and I will plan a trip to cut that tat down ASAP!!!!

Second, I am willing to occasionally go out through the summer and climb and work with you on building your basic skills. I have a very flexible schedule and lots of free time this summer. Not Married.

However,as many have said, you should know the book stuff hands-down.If you don't have the books , I will lend them to you, if you give them back. Collateral maybe?? They will aid in your understanding and ease the teaching curve. Its your life and you should learn what is the "safe" way.

If you want to... you do have the power to do this on your own.....but, if you want a little help, let me know.

-C

Chuck- not that YOU did anything wrong, but is that a single rap ring or biner up at the webbing? That's what it looks like to me on full enlarge.
If that's the case, then Jenny, your "mentor" is a dickwad and you are lucky to get out of there w/out getting hurt. Even more serendipitous is that it looks like Chuck is close to what you're looking for.

The Iron Sausage wrote:- and please ignore my stupid moniker. It was the result of a liquor-induced whim (a phrase from a Frank Zappa song) and I'm stuck with it "for a while".

Keep it,..Zappa is the best.

Chuck and The Iron Sausage make some very good points about the appropriateness of a mentor figure to new climbers (or any climbers). This game is not about learning a bunch of rules and traditions handed down to you from some mentor figure, it's about learning to think for yourself and work together with your partner, each of you contributing what you can to make a climb (or day of climbing) happen. That way if something does go wrong and your partner needs your assistance, you'll be better equipped mentally to deal with the problem.

FWIW, the toprope anchor in the picture doesn't thrill me either. Two (or better yet, 3) anchor points equalized would be my choice.

Having a skilled, experienced mentor is invaluable in making faster, and better progress to becomeing a skilled climber yourself. Aside from very basic belay/rappel safety practices theres a lot in climbing books you don't need to know. Seeing the things you do need to know in practice from a mentor will help to progress your climbing skill sets leaps and bounds. Anyone mentoring you will probably serve as a ropegun of sorts as well, giving you a chance to push your limits a bit sooner.

In theory, a mentor is great, but in practice maybe not so much, especially if you take an uncritical view of their advice by virtue of their assumed expertise. Since you aren't experienced yourself, the one thing you can't reliably do is to evaluate the experience of someone else.

Moreover, a genuinely experienced person who doesn't have ulterior motives (not that there's anything wrong with that) is not going to have all that much time for you. You really will have to learn some things on your own, in the company of others with similar experience. Perhaps some paid sessions with a certified guide would be a good investment.

If you read the threads on various climbing sites, you'll see very experienced people (among others) engaged in heated debates about the "right" way to do things. By and large, there is no universally applicable "right" way for almost anything in climbing, and what you want to acquire is a knowledge of the broadest possible range of options, together with the advantages and drawbacks of each. Beware of people with very rigid approaches; their lack of adaptability might, in some circumstances, be a liability.

So I'd say dump the mentor concept and try to find a group of people you enjoy being with, at least some of who are experienced, at least as far as you can ascertain. Read broadly, practice assiduously, and question everything you see (in a nice way of course). Think through your experiences after the fact and try to see if there might have been a better way. And don't let anyone, mentor or not, talk you into anything you feel seriously uncomfortable about.

So a female climber wants a "Single Male Climbing Mentor" and 80% of your responses are about safety?!? Man that's a first. This has got to be some weird angle all of you are working.

jarthur wrote:So a female climber wants a "Single Male Climbing Mentor" and 80% of your responses are about safety?!? Man that's a first. This has got to be some weird angle all of you are working.

I am too old, fat, bald, and married to be working any angles. I am surprised though that the usual suspects that spring to life when a woman posts something like this seem to be dormant this time.

rgold wrote:In theory, a mentor is great, but in practice maybe not so much, especially if you take an uncritical view of their advice by virtue of their assumed expertise. Since you aren't experienced yourself, the one thing you can't reliably do is to evaluate the experience of someone else. Moreover, a genuinely experienced person who doesn't have ulterior motives (not that there's anything wrong with that) is not going to have all that much time for you.

There are plenty of experienced climbers who don't have weekday parteners who are eager for a Wednesday belayer.

Jenny V, you'll be able to tell if a climber that you may look up to as a mentor is skilled and competent or a total gaper, unless you have abslutely zero experience or common sense, which dosn't sound like the case. Always think for yourself.

I've had several mentors that I've learned an enormous amount from. Having a mentor is a great idea but there are obviously things that a mentor can't teach you. Climbing is a complex physical and mental adventure and learning how to be a strong leader ultimately comes from within.

Don't worry about "maybe you'll follow a mentor's inefficient dogma". You'll find the ways and methods you do and do not like to climb with over time, that's a likely natural outgrowth of being taught how to climb. Good luck.

Sausage- To answer to your question, its looks like a single biner. The way I escaped was a small lower/downclimb. I Did NOT leave a biner or a rap ring!! This was so ( I thought) no-one would mistake this for a rap station or intermediate belay. Seriously it was Mank!!. 16-20 ft of tripled-over 1 inch tubular with the tape-knot cammed in the crack of a flake—that’s IT!! Maybe I did the old ..rap 3 pull 2, single direction pull. This was just back-up for me walking my cams (and my weak ass) down…..think redundancy and a unique situation. Also the climbing was clean, up and down, but I hate down climbing! I expected the next climber to recognize this SH!T- yank up – pull the mank –sling it over his/her shoulder and move on….. I was wrong.

Jenny- don’t be scared or intimidated. Let’s just go a few times, you'll learn some basics(more than one way to skin a cat) and if you want, you just continue on with me or others in the Rock Climbing community.I know you will move-on. After all, I am doing some aid climbing lately, and it seams everybody hates that!! Lots of heavy gear and work ;)

I will have the time during the week so lets just plan and go!!

Peace,
-C

denise 911 wrote:haha - good call jarthur, I was noticing the same thing. Jenny - your choice on partners, but from the beginning female perspective I will say my climbing improved a lot when I started climbing with other chicks. We use different body mechanics to get through the same moves (and sometimes do completely different moves). Basic safety is paramount - but I would say find yourself safe male and female partners... and while we all enjoy finding one solid partner - it's awesome learning and skill-building opportunity to climb with a variety of people at different levels (and different heights, body build, etc...)

Jenny if I were you I would climb with Denise, I have personally climbed with her before and she not only cranks but is a super safe level headed person. If you can manage and Denise is game I'd go for it!!!!

Hope all is well for ya Denise, we gotta get out soon :).

On another note, I'm far from a Mentor, but my anchors aren't mank. If you want to climb shoot me an email....single, married, guy, girl, makes no difference, I just want to climb.

seth0687 wrote:On another note, I'm far from a Mentor, but my anchors aren't mank. If you want to climb shoot me an email....single, married, guy, girl, makes no difference, I just want to climb.

Seth...a little birdy told me that you've taken several falls ON LEAD on GEAR. Aren't you fairly new to the climbing game??

Props for you pushing your limits, but damn, how many pitches have you lead, clean with no falls at your 10b limit?

"Far from a mentor"....ummm, yeah. Buyer beware. One of my climbing partners hasn't taken a lead fall on gear in 12+ years. Overly cautious? Maybe. Safe? Absolutely 100%.

Just sayin'.

Mike Wysuph wrote: Seth...a little birdy told me that you've taken several falls ON LEAD on GEAR. Aren't you fairly new to the climbing game?? Props for you pushing your limits, but damn, how many pitches have you lead, clean with no falls at your 10b limit? "Far from a mentor"....ummm, yeah. Buyer beware. One of my climbing partners hasn't taken a lead fall on gear in 12+ years. Overly cautious? Maybe. Safe? Absolutely 100%. Just sayin'.

Seriously? Are you kidding?

Edit: You must be kidding.

Mike Wysuph wrote: One of my climbing partners hasn't taken a lead fall on gear in 12+ years. Overly cautious? Maybe. Safe? Absolutely 100%. Just sayin'.

One of my safest and least sketchy climbing partners:

Avery Nelson wrote: Seriously? Are you kidding? Edit: You must be kidding.

Sorry Avery, not kidding at all. Maybe it's because I'm new to the game and taking a fall on gear scares the be-jesus out of me.

No flaming needed, but can you respectfully explain why you would think I was kidding?

Personally, I myself, would be hesitant to trust my life to someone who has < 1 year of climbing experience. There's just so much that could go wrong in trad land......

Jay, that's on bolts. Isn't it a bit different if your partner was taking that on placed pieces?

(Okay, now that I've processed this, I see everyone's point. Yes, by all means, go single pitch sport climbing and/or bouldering with inexperienced climbers. I guess my original post was trad-based without proper explanation.)

men⋅tor
  /ˈmɛntɔr, -tər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [men-tawr, -ter] Show IPA
–noun
1. a wise and trusted counselor or teacher.
2. an influential senior sponsor or supporter

To get back on topic...Jenny V, I would suggest finding people whom you can trust to get you out of the worst possible of situations as well as some one who can share their knowledge.

People that have been climbing for one year, should not offer themselves up as mentors, unless they went to an intensive one year climbing seminar taught by Steve F*ing House...

I believe in climbing mentors, as I have learned from and taught climbers myself, but be careful in whom you select as your "teacher," they may be as green as you.

No flaming intended, Mike. The concern about falls per se just seems a little off. Total time climbing is a legitimate question, but that too can be made up by intensity, frequency, and quality of prior climbing partners.

But back to falls, on gear. As an observation, several reported falls without incident might actually reflect good safety practices.

As a matter of experience, some of us learned to climb when trad and placed gear was the whole game (with a few bolts and fixed pins mixed in). But by then, the era of "the leader must not fall" had already yielded to bolder efforts, combined with serious attention to the gamut of belayer and leader skills.

Those skills are life-and-death important. Bad placements, poor rope management, poor location of placements, any number of things might draw justified comment or correction. But falling does not, itself, suggest the critical skills are being neglected.

I guess people may have reacted starkly to your post because it appeared you were reacting starkly, for dubious reason, to another's post. But the one year thing...yeah, that's a question.

EDIT: Seth, I just checked out your profile. Dammit. If you really are leading 10b trad and following 12 sport, I will neither defend nor like you any more. Sheesh! Where's Deaun? We need to get around to that beating!