Climbing Cams.

I'm looking at adding some active protection to my climbing rack. I've moved on past the days of mooching off of my partner's lead gear and would like to get comfortable with my own. This is currently what my rack consists of and I am needing input on what else would be nice to have / what type of cams do people like. My partner has a full set of the Black Diamond C4 Camalots and also the C3's. I like them a lot but feel kind of bad for getting the same ones he has. If those are the overall best cams on the market, I'll get them. I've also considered purchasing the metolius tcus over the black diamond c3s. Any advice would help and be greatly appreciated. Thanks. :)

* 10 Alpine Draws (8 non-locking, 2 locking)

* 5 Petzl Spirit Quickdraws

* 2 double-length sewn slings

* 3 single-length sewn slings

* Complete set of Black Diamond Stoppers (#1-13)

* Metolius Hexes (6-10)

* C.A.M.P. Tricams (.5-2)

* Knife

* Nut tool

* 4 locking carabiners

* 2 Cord-o-lets one 6mm, one 7mm

* Rope

* Etc, etc.

Just mainly looking for input on active protection - cams. Thanks again!

Instead of C3s go for the Metolius Mastercams. Trust me.

John Hegyes wrote:Instead of C3s go for the Metolius Mastercams. Trust me.

Do you mean the c4's?

Anthony P. wrote: Do you mean the c4's?

No, I'm talking about the small gear. I've tried the Aliens, C3s, Metolius Powercams, TCUs, and Mastercams. I'm the most satisfied with Mastercams, at least from #1 - #4.

If I was going to double up at that range, I'd go with Powercams and TCUs.

Above those sizes I use BD Camalot C4s from 0.75 on up.

John Hegyes wrote: No, I'm talking about the small gear. I've tried the Aliens, C3s, Metolius Powercams, TCUs, and Mastercams. I'm the most satisfied with Mastercams, at least from #1 - #4. If I was going to double up at that range, I'd go with Powercams and TCUs. Above those sizes I use BD Camalot C4s from 0.75 on up.

So instead of the C3s, get the master cams from 1-4. How about 0 and 00? From there, .75 - 3 with the C4's? I'm assuming that the master cams are similar in size with the Black Diamond C3's?

I don't use cams #0 and #00. Too small. Ballnuts are stronger at that size.

I personally don't think you'll find a better cam than a C4 from #0.75 up. I'd get up to a #4.

Sweet. I read a review by rockclimbing.com and the guy loved them. I'll strongly consider. Do you double up on certain numbers with your cams and or nuts? If so, what numbers should I consider doubling up on? Also, do the sizes from the #4 of from metolius and #.75 from black diamond overlap - the same size - or is it following the size pattern? Another way to think about it is the #.75 from BDEL equivalent to the #5 from metolius?

Anthony P. wrote:I'm assuming that the master cams are similar in size with the Black Diamond C3's?

I believe that mastercams and C3s are similar in size, but C3s only go up to #2.

Anthony P. wrote:Do you double up on certain numbers with your cams and or nuts?

I typically use a full double set of cams and nuts. The only usual variation is how many of the larger sizes (Camalot #4 and higher). But I enjoy climbing old school trad (few bolts, lots of gear anchors...) so I like the double rack.

Anthony P. wrote:Also, do the sizes from the #4 of from metolius and #.75 from black diamond overlap - the same size - or is it following the size pattern?

I believe there is some overlap there, but climbing here in Red Rock, that's a pretty critical size. I think of the 0.75 Camalot as my favorite size...

Wow Justin! You have been extremely helpful throughout this whole gear deciding process. I want to thank you for all the advice you have lent to me. Without your help, I'd still be on step one. Thanks again :)!

Just whatever you do, don't let price be the only deciding factor. I've known people to go out and by a complete rack of off-brand, cheap cams and they eventually regretted the purchase and bought a rack of Camalots later on.

I agree with John. Get Metolius Master Cams for everything from #00 > #4; get BD C4s for .5 or .75 on up. TCUs are a good choice if you wanna double up on the smaller stuff, but the Master Cams are better for a primary set. Nothing beats BD C4s for the mid > larger stuff. Nothing. Considering the fact that they've almost got the market locked for mid > larger size cams, the prices aren't really that bad. They could probably charge 20% more and still sell close to the same number of cams.

get the c3s

Justin Cantrall wrote:Different cams have their own nuances; and most climbers have a preference to one brand/series over another...But maybe you'll be a Friends guy.

DMM 4CUs are the same sizes as Friends and are lighter. They make up the bulk of my rack, and I prefer them to Camalots, if only for the size breakdown.

Also I really don't like Friends. I find they're a bitch to handle - the DMMs are U-stem, so they're easier to grab-and-place but still offer the nice overlap in sizes.

I like my Mastercams a lot (I have #s 1 and 2), as do the couple other people I've swapped leads with over the last year.

I reeeeaaaally like WC Zeroes for my little cams and Camalots for bigger sizes. An oddball Friend here and there and triples on Metolius black.

I'd go with a full set of Camalots and a set of either C3s or Wild Country Zeros. Camalots are freaking amazing. I've got Zeros and love em and always use my partners' C3s and love em. I have one recently-acquired Mastercam but haven't placed it yet so I can't help you there. I have a full set of Metolius TCUs, too, and I think they're obsolete with C3s, Mastercams, and Zeros out there. I never take mine with me any more except when doing longer/aid stuff. I like the single stem design much more than the dual stem.

Tricams are rad but if you're just starting out I'd say not get them right away. I'm sure someone else will come along and tell you the opposite, though...

I hate hexes. Effing cowbells.

I like my Webolette (Yates makes Rabbit Runners which are the same kind of thing) much more than my cordalette.

-Tristan

U-stems are very problematic for cracks that narrow below the placement; they can lever the cam out of the placement in a fall. There's a very good reason why the single-stem design dominates the cam market.

My "core" rack is Aliens and Mastercams doubling each other in small sizes (I do carry the 0 and 00) and Friends and C4's to double from 0.5 Camalot size on up to #4 Friend. I carry a ABC Huevos from #4-13 with doubles in #5 - #10 (same sizes as BD Stoppers but came in anodized colors before BD did and now I'm used to them).

Depending on the route, I'll add bigger gear as needed and also carry either BD steel micro-stoppers or HB offsets. Also small Tri-cams for some routes.

John Hegyes wrote:Instead of C3s go for the Metolius Mastercams. Trust me.

Got to agree to some extent. I don't like C3's. I wish the Mastercam trigger was a little more grippy though- it can squirt a little.

I like the Master cams allot more then the C3's. I also really like the Wild Country Zero's for the super small stuff.

IMO the most important thing on a cam (assuming they all will hold a fall equally) is how "handleable" they are. I bought the BD C4's because I loved how they felt to place. The thumb loop and the triggers are well designed and easy to place because of it. Other cams with a narrow thumb piece on the end of the stem felt awkward. The other features don't matter if you can't quickly and easily place a piece before you fall!

I also use and really like my metolius TCU's (I use the smallest 5 sizes)

Kevin Craig wrote:... cracks that narrow below the placement

This is a generic description for passive pro placements, isn't it ?
So why use a cam instead ?