doubling up parts of my rack

I have been slowly constructing my trad rack for the past 6-8 months.
Right now I have:

BD C4's from .4 to 3
WC zeros 3 and 4
trango flex cam 7-9 (approximately the same size as C4 2-4)
tricams pink and red
bd stoppers 4-13

slings, cord, carabiners, etc

I feel like I have a pretty good spread for the basics of my rack.
The trangos approximately double up my #2 and #3 camalots.
Where I climb (in the red river gorge) it seems like I use hands to small hands most often so I am thinking about doubling up my .5-1 sizes.

When doubling up should I consider different cams to ensure I have a rack that can handle most situations?

Right now I am considering either:
getting more BD's. I would either pick up .5-1 camalots which would be around 150 dollars total)
pick up two used link cams (both sizes 1 and 2) for about the same money.
or a set of hand sized WC friends

any others I should consider?
which of these three options would you guys recommend?

Double up with BD C4s. They really shine in that range. Also, since you already have them, there is something to be said for continuity. Further, they are the golden standard in many people's opinion. That and most folks on the East coast climb on them so there's that continuity again.

I agree on keeping it BD...
I have cams from Metolious, wild country,DMM, rock empire, tango, and aliens. when I carry a double rack, it is still always double in BDs. Its nice to keep the sizing the same, so you just already know thats its a .75 BD, instead of a black metolious, purple wild country. red DMM?....you get the point

home slice get some SLUNG hexes... not wired...so ull either be wildcountry..or used hexes...the wireds..are inefficient...but u NEED hexes... check em out ..old guys sell them alot online and ebay..

I would say improve your smaller sizes... like aliens..and C3's and micro nuts.

And go BD..all the way..

link cams..i heard they're cool..but dont get used...so save those for your last purchases of a rack..

.and if your thinking ur into climbing....and might some time persue into aid climbing...check out the used ..atries ..ppl sell them for like 10 bucks..

I use mostly BD, link cams and aliens, but I have a couple wild country technical friends and I really really like them. They feel extremely solid, at least as good as the camalots. And they are making a 0 and 00 size this year that have about the same range as blue and green aliens. Might want to check them out, each company has it's advantages and draw backs, it's not a bad idea to have a healthy mix on your rack. And if it's your rack, after a couple times out you know what cam fits what size slot, having all the same brand is not necessary. Humans do have the ability to learn and process complex information after all.

i recently built up my rack on metolius mastercams, WC tech friends and BD c4s. i would say double up on bds or friends for medium to large cams. i find friends to be my most solid cam. i havent had one walk on me yet (in my short leading career as of now), although you do give up the size range of the C4s.

i would also increase your cam range. i love the mastercams and use the blue and yellow on EVERY pitch i climb. havent tried aliens yet, but everyone says that they are great. if you have the means, go for the 0-3 mastercams, and double 1-3 (yellow-orange)

also i recently doubled my stoppers in the midrange (6-10) and it has helped my rack out immensely. maybe double those sizes with a different brand. i am climbing on BD and DMM and one brand will usually fit where the other doesnt.

on a sidenote, i have seen WC cams on clearance for 20% off, so look around for that if you are going for WC.

Thanks for all of the input guys.
I found a pretty rocking deal on a couple of BD's nearly new #1 and #2. I didn't really plan on doubling the #2 but at the deal I got I couldn't pass it up.
So now I'll have the #1 doubled.
I like that most people suggested just sticking with the BD's because that is what I am most comfortable with anyway. I've placed a wild country or two and really liked the action but I am daunted by the difference in colors and sizes so sticking with BD's seems like the best bet.
My idea to go with a couple link cams came from experience with a friends #2 link cam this summer. It performed well as a perfect 'oh snap' piece for when feeling the pump in desperate need of gear.

Anyway, I think I will continue to look around and see if I can get a deal on a .75 BD and maybe a .5. That would have my smallish to mid range pretty well doubled up.

As far as improving my smaller sizes per lucaskrajnik's suggestion, I am not sure I am really concerned with that right now because I have found that I rarely plug anything smaller than the .5 out here in the Red. I feel like having one solid piece for each small size (the zeros and smaller C4's) seems sufficient for the rock out here whereas only having singles in the .5-1 sizes has been resulting in me running it out on occasion when I wasn't particularly comfortable doing so.

I had been completely fine (aside from occasionally having to run it out a little) on my current rack until this past weekend when I went out with a friend and we climbed a nice crack which freaking ate .75's and 1's. Luckily he had doubles of trangos in similar sizes. Climbing with his doubles, I really felt more comfortable pushing myself on harder routes than I had previously lead so I think it is important for me to get more pro in these sizes to continue pushing myself harder.

• **edit-I didn't read your post about feeling well covered on the smallers before posting the below. So, yes, doubling up in sizes you find yourself running short on is the best, since you know exactly what type of climbing you'll be doing.

The one suggestion I have fro you, though, is look for smaller placements around the bigger placements. There are likely good small placements within sub systems/side cracks, if there is a big crack. That way you'll be able to carry less honker cams up.***

I am of the opinion that below a BD .75/1 sized cam, it is nice to have different brands in comparable sizes. I find that certain placements are best for tcu, c3, small c4's, mastercams, etc.

I'll play with one cam to get a good placement, pull out a comparably sized cam of a different brand, and sink a bomber placement in the same crack. So, if I were you, I'd get a couple mastercams/c3's to compliment the smaller range.

Above a .75/1, I'm a BD only person.

Just my 2 cents
Evan

>>I am of the opinion that below a BD .75/1 sized cam, it is nice to have different brands in comparable sizes. I find that certain placements are best for tcu, c3, small c4's, mastercams, etc.

I'll play with one cam to get a good placement, pull out a comparably sized cam of a different brand, and sink a bomber placement in the same crack. So, if I were you, I'd get a couple mastercams/c3's to compliment the smaller range.
>>

Evan is spot on here.

I've subscribed the the recommended rack of different types (BD and Metolius) and it's worked well, HOWEVER, I find that I always grab my BD's 1st and most often. My rack has slowly started to moved to just doubles of the black diamonds and I have to "fight" with myself to keep the metolius on the rack. The BD's just seem to place and clean much much easier and don't walk as much (my fault probably). That being said for TCU's I have mastercams and the old style single stem BD micro cams.

I think either way you win. The one thing that I think is most important for having a mixed rack is the range, as stated above. I know some of the larger aliens are right in between sizes, so they will be perfect for the off placements. I probably carry too much gear, but I feel better that way, and I usually end up needing them for belays anyways. Nothing worse than your partner leading the next pitch after you've ganked all the good sizes for your anchor!!

I agree with Evan as well. I find that having Metolius and BD cams to double the same range gives me some alternatives that I wouldn't have if all my cams were BDs. And don't worry about the color differences, Adam; as you gain experience, I think you'll find you're looking on your rack for size, not color.

As to the rest of your rack, I think doubling up on pink and red Tricams is a a great idea, and add a brown and a black (the new small one) as well.

JL

thanks for the tips guys.
In regards to going metolius, I use a set of TCU's over the summer in colorado a few times and I never really liked them. I don't know why but I ALWAYS had trouble placing them and feeling comfortable with the placement. This was also on some of my first trad leads so that may have had something to do with it, but it still makes me hesitant to pick up a set.
Do master cams place similar to TCU's? Am I correct that the sizing is the same as TCU's?
If so, then maybe I would like mastercams more than TCU's.

A set of 1-6 mastercams would give me coverage in the tips to thin hand sizes correct? Maybe those with a second #1 camalot would have me covered nicely in the range I'm worried about.?

That seems like a lot of gear though, adding seven more cams to my rack just feels like I'm being a super gumby with more money than skill. Maybe I should get some hexes instead so I can feel like more of a bad-a...

as for the tricams, I have only placed the ones I own once(last weekend) but I think that now that I have done so I think I will start placing them more often as I become more comfortable setting them one handed. So, get a couple more was already on my mind. I'm not sure about the two new small sizes though, are they rated for free climbing? I thought they were aid pieces?

The problem with link cams is their weight. On the one hand, you want to save them for when you are out of that other sized cam, however, on the other, you want to use them asap to get that clunker off your rack.

I also carry doubles in the micro ranges for 2 reasons:
#1 - they take up very little space and weight next to nothing (5 cams under .4)
#2 - if I'm freakin' out, it is probably because I can't fit my fingers into the crack and I'm way above my gear.

Although you may climb in the hand crack range now, you may quickly progress to thinner stuff and desire smaller cams.

Having different company's gear on your wrack also helps when you are using a friend's rack. I don't have any aliens and when climbing on my buddy's rack, I shy away from placing his because I am not familiar.

KYclimberAdam wrote:Am I correct that the sizing is the same as TCU's? If so, then maybe I would like mastercams more than TCU's.

I believe they use the same lobes as the TCUs, so yeah, if you like the single-stem design of Camalots, you'll probably like Mastercams better than the U-stem TCUs.

KYclimberAdam wrote:I'm not sure about the two new small sizes though, are they rated for free climbing? I thought they were aid pieces?

I think only the teeny little white Tricam is rated for aid only. I'm comfortable free climbing over the .25 black.

JL

saxfiend wrote: I think only the teeny little white Tricam is rated for aid only. I'm comfortable free climbing over the .25 black. JL

The .25 black is rated at 3 kn in a passive mode, and 5 kn in active (camming) mode. I wouldn't use them in the passive mode 'cause a nut would be better anyway. So if you are using it in camming mode it should be plenty strong for a lead fall.

I believe they use the same lobes as the TCUs, so yeah, if you like the single-stem design of Camalots, you'll probably like Mastercams better than the U-stem TCUs."

The mastercams are the same lobes as the 4 lobed powercams, not the three lobed TCU's. TCU's have the advantage of being narrower from side to side, but they also tend to be less stable and wiggle around more. Maybe this is why the placements were less confidence installing. I've always found the TCU's to be bomber despite the seeming instability.

The range covered by each color is the same regardless of the lobe confirguration, though.

And, yes, given your qualms with the TCU's, you'll probably like the mastercams better.

KYclimberAdam wrote:thanks for the tips guys. In regards to going metolius, I use a set of TCU's over the summer in colorado a few times and I never really liked them. I don't know why but I ALWAYS had trouble placing them and feeling comfortable with the placement. This was also on some of my first trad leads so that may have had something to do with it, but it still makes me hesitant to pick up a set. Do master cams place similar to TCU's? Am I correct that the sizing is the same as TCU's? If so, then maybe I would like mastercams more than TCU's. A set of 1-6 mastercams would give me coverage in the tips to thin hand sizes correct?

i do not like the TCU's as i have large hands and they are hard for me to place and clean. they are just too narrow. mastercams on the other hand, go in smoothly and are solid, although it is easy to over cam the smaller pieces. if you are thinking about mastercams, i would go 0-4, doubling 1-3, and then go BD .75 or WC 1.75 up until you have doubled everything you want to. in my experience with the mastercams, #5 and 6 are like wet noodles when trying to retract the lobes when compared to my WC tech friends. the flexible stem on the mastercam is great in the smaller pieces, but there is just too much tension on the stem in the larger sizes.

dont worry about having too much gear. there is never enough... damn credit cards. and my gear>my skill by a long shot.

Holy crap...how much gear do you need? Your rack is plenty big enough right now. I would have doubled up on the BD C4 vice the Trangos but you don't need any more gear. If I added anything it would be to double up on some of the mid range stoppers. How many inches apart do you place pro?

Brian,

You can never really have to much gear...
Ever:
1: done a wall
2: climbed at the creek
3: climbed any consistant crack at all
4: built belays on mulipitch cliimbs?

I say this mostly to make my self feel better about owning over 60 cams, but I do climb at the Creek a bunch and use them all. There are routes there that can take up to 9 .75" cams, and it that size, I want all I can get!

Well the deal I mentioned the other day on a #1 and #2 c4 seems to have fallen through because the seller never got back to me. Sucks but oh well, I didn't really need the second number 2 anyway.

I picked up a brown tri-cam today because they were on sale a store I went to. Seems about the same size as the lower end of a .75 camalot.

I am looking around for a good deal on a green and red camalot, or maybe some similar sized aliens or friends. Basically I am just going to pick up whatever I can get the best deal on.

Other than that, I am going to look at getting a set of smaller cams later, maybe with the tax return...
1-4 set of tcu's seems like a good deal for the sizes you guys recommended, but I feel like I'd rather have master cams. Not sure, but it isn't too important because that will come later.

Brian wrote:Holy crap...how much gear do you need? Your rack is plenty big enough right now. I would have doubled up on the BD C4 vice the Trangos but you don't need any more gear. If I added anything it would be to double up on some of the mid range stoppers. How many inches apart do you place pro?

Though I agree with you as far as the total range of my rack, I just feel like when climbing consistently sized cracks it would be nice to have some stuff doubled up. Is that not an understandable problem? I mean, if a crack has forty feet of .75 width crack, then my only option would be to plug my only .75, maybe plug an overcammed 1, and run it out between them hoping to get a tipped out .5 in somewhere. Not a fan of having to do that.

as far as the trangos, I got them used for a really good deal and thought it was good opportunity to double up my larger sizes. Basically, I got all three for just over the cost of a #4 camalot. As much as I have used the 7 and 9, I think I made a good purchase even if they aren't as nice as c4's.

Cota wrote:Brian, You can never really have to much gear... Ever: 1: done a wall 2: climbed at the creek 3: climbed any consistant crack at all 4: built belays on mulipitch cliimbs? I say this mostly to make my self feel better about owning over 60 cams, but I do climb at the Creek a bunch and use them all. There are routes there that can take up to 9 .75" cams, and it that size, I want all I can get!

I think anybody who has never climbed a crack that required more than 2 of any given size really can't offer any useful advice on doubling up on pieces. Could just be me though.

/owns 7 pieces in #3 C4/3.5 friend size.
//doesn't know why
///HATES big hand cracks