Crack Climbing! (How To Climb Series)

Shawn Mitchell wrote: I don't know, Richard. Seems like the intuitive line is pretty clear between protecting your skin, whatever your hand's dimensions, and applying surplus material purposely to change those dimensions. The commonality of increased friction--a byproduct of taping--doesn't hide the mechanical difference between natural size and artificial size. EDIT: Guess I'd disagree if anyone suggests taping for size equates to standing in aiders. But it still shifts the game away from traditional free climbing, where progress comes from greater effort and better technique, to engineering, where mechanical ingenuity magically reduces the grade.

Shawn! Long time no debate! You've been keeping a low profile since the election...

I'm not disputing that one gives a greater mechanical advantage than the other. I'm simply suggesting it's a matter of degrees. Tape gives an advantage. Period.

The bottom line is that it's really pretty ridiculous to "debate" these things at all. Do you really care what it takes for me to get up a pitch? I doubt it. Do I care about your "style"? No. I'll cheer you on for the send, but if you grab a draw, I'm not going to think any less of you, or really anything about it at all. My climbing demons are personal: I'm only trying to impress myself when it comes to style. I won't be disappointed if someone else "invalidates" my efforts, whatever the hell that means. The only person I'm competing with is myself.

Don't get me wrong: I'm going for the best style I can muster. I just don't think it should matter to anyone else.

Richard Radcliffe wrote:Don't get me wrong: I'm going for the best style I can muster. I just don't think it should matter to anyone else.

Way to find the libertarian common ground, Radcliffe! Can't really argue with that. But let me try.

I don't think less of anyone for "imperfect" tactics, but I don't feel the same sense of vicarious celebration: "Great send, mate!" If someone pulls on a draw, I'm less excited for them because I know they're likely to be feeling personal demons--like I do.

Start adding in mechanical tricks like welders gloves or dry tooling* (heh), and my cameraderie drops from shared aspirations way down to possibly impressed curiosity: "Interesting...Good luck!"

*And the tools better not be on quality free climbs, especially with soft rock. Then we would move from style into ethics...

And Happy New Year! Yes, I'm trying to be more responsible!

Shawn Mitchell wrote: I don't think less of anyone for "imperfect" tactics, but I don't feel the same sense of vicarious celebration: "Great send, mate!" If someone pulls on a draw, I'm less excited for them because I know they're likely to be feeling personal demons--like I do.

Good point, and I'm the same way. However, that wasn't the earlier tone of this thread which was more along the lines of something like this: anyone who uses a less than stellar style is a boob and I want nothing to do with them because I'm pure and I'm bad and I can kick your ass with my eyes closed. OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point.

Happy and healthy New Year to you! When are we going to have that East County lunch?

Jeremy, Buy the book.Steve Petro is a super crack climber and I am sure that he has some valuable knowledge to share. Besides he did one of my routes a few years back and sent me a big atta-boy. So he is gold in my opinion. I am also sure that he could definantly use the money.
John Langston's advise is spot on.
Climbing at the level that you posted on your profile and living in the front range you have access to a vast amount of cracks that are well within your range. Pick your poison and go slam it out using what ever rules/ethics you want to play by.
Be strong,humble,and most of all have fun!

Bob D'Antonio wrote: And that is what is important, most on this site are out to enjoy their time. Who cares how or what they climb. Oh...what about knee pads on those OW??

Bob, I wanted to seize the occasion to agree fully with your post! And Happy New Year.

Richard, I'm PMing you my # (which is listed anyway.) Let's do 'er.

Richard Radcliffe wrote: Good point, and I'm the same way. However, that wasn't the earlier tone of this thread which was more along the lines of something like this: anyone who uses a less than stellar style is a boob and I want nothing to do with them because I'm pure and I'm bad and I can kick your ass with my eyes closed. OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point.

I think Langston's point has a reasonable context--It's really the personal point projected to a larger audience. When it comes to "fame" and respect and reputation, there are rules of the game that deserve higher standing, and shortcuts that diminish that standing. "Who cares how I climb?" is fair enough as long as the ascender isn't spewing and trading on the ascent. If someone's doing stuff on stilts and hooked gloves, they shouldn't be strutting around preening while hiding their strategies.

Fair nuf?

EDIT: John and I posted independently. I didn't see his before sending mine, and having read his last, I'm not sure he necessarily agrees with mine. Vive la difrence

Olaf Mitchell wrote:Be strong,humble,and most of all have fun!

Richard Radcliffe wrote:I like ethics/style/nonsense debates. You're going to have to work really hard explaining why taping for one reason is cheating but not for a different reason. I get the size bit, but please.

I always figured that not many will fault you if the reason you're taping is so that your hands aren't so damaged the next day that you can't climb. Yes, its still cheating, but its not as egregious, and it really isn't to make the climbing easier. Taping to make your hands bigger, or stiffer or whatever really is (as somebody else put it) using mechanical ingenuity in lieu of actual free climbing ability.

John Langston wrote:Julian. I'd be quite happy to follow your rules. Would you?

Nah. I like my rock shoes too much, and practice is fun. Otherwise I already follow 'em.

Anyway, I think I actually agree with you more than I disagree with you. Taping for size is pretty weak, and I don't like tick marks unless I really can't see a hold.

Well, thanks folks for the tips. I ordered the book and will let you know what I think.

I was snooping around on youtube and found this guy. I guess he attended the last splitter camp and recorded some of the instruction given by Jay Smith.

youtube.com/user/brodient1