Retro-bolting, disrespect, and ignorance in general

I recently noticed a retro-bolt route in the "What's New" thread. Granted it's in an area notorious for squeeze jobs, lack of ethics and ignorant shit in general, but still.

Let's hear some opinion on retro-bolting a trad line and RENAMING the route with an asinine name like "Don't Trad on Me".

To me this seems like weak sauce, disrespect, and just plain uncoolness.

Par for the area I suppose.

Thoughts ????

Here's mine...Chop it...the right way...epoxy the holes...make it like it never happened.

I'm a total noob so my opinion probly doesn't matter much, but that seems pretty spiteful and disrespectful to boot.

EDIT: Can't you continue to climb the route without using the bolts and therefore still climb it trad style?? i know that doesn't effect the principles of the matter but ya....

According to the comments under the route, they got permission from the FA to retro-bolt the route.

mountainproject.com/v/alaba…;

I still don't think the route should be renamed, especially with something that dumb.

Retrobolting is like the second Iraq-American war....it's simply cleaning up mistakes from the past.

I just looked at that route's page... I'm not from anywhere even close to the area in question, but it seems stupid to me to claim a first bolted ascent... I have an idea: I'll go retro-bolt the Nose, call it something stupid (Thumbing My Nose? Nose Job?), and claim that I did the FA. WTF?

-Tristan

^^^My thoughts also.

I don't understand why people feel the need to retro-bolt trad routes like that. It's 40 feet tall, if you don't want to trad lead it then TR it or do something else. Its not like there's a shortage of sport climbs at Sandrock.

Tristan Higbee wrote:I just looked at that route's page... I'm not from anywhere even close to the area in question, but it seems stupid to me to claim a first bolted ascent... I have an idea: I'll go retro-bolt the Nose, call it something stupid (Thumbing My Nose? Nose Job?), and claim that I did the FA. WTF? -Tristan

Tristan nailed it. I'll hold back on my thoughts about the retro till we get word from Stegg. But re-naming it!!! I hope this is some innocent mistake/mis-communication and will be corrected shortly. (claiming a 'bolted FA'......that is some silly shit)

And a thought about putting in squeeze jobs, not only does a squeezed in route suck it takes away from the routes on both sides. Don't let a hunger to bolt ruin yours' and others' hard work. IMO

Well, Sandrock had a pretty bad period in the mid 90s when a few guys were retro-ing a bunch of stuff...every trad line on west side of Holiday iirc. Tales, Tuesday, etc were established on gear and Tales in particular was pretty bold.

The same period saw other stupid stuff, look at the detached pillar thing next to Dreamscape...they just had to perforate that with a line of bolts. I moved west in '98, but still get reports from friends of continued foolishness there...some guy bolting an established and easy 20' boulder problem recently (since chopped). I can't believe they never bolted Cleopatra's Clit (aka Jaws) or Wall of Horns.

Will S wrote: I can't believe they never bolted Cleopatra's Clit (aka Jaws) or Wall of Horns.

aawwwe crap, I hope you didn't give these guys a new idea. ( i'm kidding, well kind of.....)

To me these activities show a lack of respect to climbing generations past, present, and future. This climb must have been too bold of a trad line for these guys and should have been left that way for others to have a chance to test themselves on. There are plenty of bolted lines already at Sandrock. As Langston said, you can skip them but it isn't the same as the bolts not being there.

Paul Barnes wrote: Thoughts ???? Here's mine...Chop it...the right way...epoxy the holes...make it like it never happened.

Don't forget to add Timmy + Sara 4 EVA in spray paint - it adds authenticity to any Sand Rock climb

I'm just glad the hordes (headed by a few bolt-happy individuals) seem occupied with SR and don't seem to get out to other, more pristine places more often...

In light of the SCC's upcoming announcement regarding a newly acquired cliff in Alabama, I am worried that this kind of disregard for history and ethics will spread if retros like this are allowed to continue...even if permission was granted...

doug s wrote: Don't forget to add Timmy + Sara 4 EVA in spray paint - it adds authenticity to any Sand Rock climb

Only if there's broken bud bottles, shotgun shells, and fire soot at the base. And while you're climbing some three-tooth hillbilly tweaker is rifling your car while his shoeless fatassed kid is running around with a BB gun and his "old lady" is raging around the place on a 4 wheeler in Mossy Oak camo.

Will S wrote: Only if there's broken bud bottles, shotgun shells, and fire soot at the base. And while you're climbing some three-tooth hillbilly tweaker is rifling your car while his shoeless fatassed kid is running around with a BB gun and his "old lady" is raging around the place on a 4 wheeler in Mossy Oak camo.

Man I miss the South - but in all seriousness, if a line can be climbed on traditional protection, why bolt it "for the masses" - Last time I was at SR - there were plenty of climbs for them...

Paul Barnes wrote:I recently noticed a retro-bolt route in the "What's New" thread. Granted it's in an area notorious for squeeze jobs, lack of ethics and ignorant shit in general, but still. Let's hear some opinion on retro-bolting a trad line and RENAMING the route with an asinine name like "Don't Trad on Me". To me this seems like weak sauce, disrespect, and just plain uncoolness. Par for the area I suppose. Thoughts ???? Here's mine...Chop it...the right way...epoxy the holes...make it like it never happened.

I just became aware of this being added to the routes database. Paul -- let me know what you hear from Shannon, I'll try to contact him myself. Once this is all sorted out, I'll make any appropriate modifications to the route entry.

Sad to say, this is nothing new at Sand Rock.

JL

This does seem odd to me. If this happened around here there would be large riots and mayhem.

Around here it's the opposite. Lines are being freed entirely on gear that were originally bolted years ago. Much cooler...

Okay, I had a nice long conversation with Shannon today. He said he gave approval for the addition of one bolt to Cinco de Mayo, but not a complete retrobolt. He was also understandably unhappy about it being renamed. Shannon re-affirmed what most of us already know -- you can't go around bolting routes just to bring them down to your lead level. It's not just disrespect to him, it's disrespect to climbing history and tradition.

Shannon said the route will be restored to its original state (other than maybe the one bolt that was approved); he's going to deal with it himself. Meantime, I've corrected the name of the route and FA information here on Mountain Project; it sounds like Will has done the same on rc.com.

I'm glad we've got that straightened out.

JL

thanks, saxfiend!

Paul Barnes wrote:PERFECT...and a good precedent set as a precursor to the opening of Crag "X".

That's something else Shannon and I were talking about. He was one of the pioneers of this crag and told me about a lot of nice-sounding trad lines he FA'd. Greg Allen also established some routes there, but he can't remember them, heh heh! I hope I can get the tour of the place with Shannon when it opens.

JL

I'll punch Johnny Arms in the face.

seth0687 wrote:Can't you continue to climb the route without using the bolts and therefore still climb it trad style??

And you can continue to hike along the shoulder of a new highway ... but its not the same as a hike in the woods, is it?