New BD Camalot C4s

I was in my local (read only) outdoor gear retailer in central New York today looking at buying some C4s for my rack until I noticed that they were all made in China. What is up with that? The C3s, at least the ones on the shelf, were still made in the US. I'm not sure I am willing to trust my life to things being assembled in China based on all the recent manufacturing problems they seem to have. I'd personally rather pay an extra 10 or 15 bucks for something made in the US, or Europe for that matter.

It's a BD owned, staffed, and operated facility.

bdel.com/china/faqs_china.php

Thanks, The corporate PR is very informative.

Nathan,

I think there are few people willing to pay more for something when it came be purchased cheaper. Take for example alpinist magazine, it just couldn't survive with only 9000 subscribers and a magazine price of about 17 bucks. I would have paid more but I think its the minority.

I didn't buy C3 for a year or two because of the price of 70 bucks a cam.

I think BD had no choice but to move some of their manufacturing off site. I brought a trango ballnut a couple of days ago and that's made in Korea. Hopefully BD's quality control will ensure that things are taken care of.

Cheers

john

Now that I am an informed buyer and know that BD is making the C4s in their own factory and not a contract manufacturer I will be buying some because you can't beat their action, especially in the medium sizes. I was just rather surprised at the "Made in China" on the tag this morning.

Jed Pointer wrote:You sound like you are stuck in the 70's. China is like everywhere else in the 1st world now. Some shops make crap, some don't - just like here and everywhere else. Just depends who's running the place. They have running water, toilets, schools, universities, etc - and since all our major companies have moved all their manufacturing over there over the past 20 years, their manufacturing workforce has become quite sophisticated - perhaps more so than ours.

Recent problems that come to mind involving goods manufactured in China include:
Lead paint on kids toys
Toothpaste made with diethylene glycol
Melamine in pet food
Baby formula

To me it is one thing if the strap on my Chinese contract manufactured backpack breaks 3 miles back in the woods and another when the only thing keeping me from a nasty ground fall is a piece of protection that may or may not have been made to the standards we have become accustomed to.

Nathan

Coming from a Chinese family and having lived in Korea for a few years, I understand your distrust. They have a very different culture than ours. They themselves have a very strong (and warranted) distrust of ANY product. Food, clothes, cams.. they will inspect and re-inspect anything. Because they know, more than anyone, that corners are being cut at any facility that is trying to make a buck.

But this is true in Asia and anywhere else in the world. I've worked in a couple manufacturing facilities (antennas, US). And after our 'product' came back in a box with parts falling off, I give you this advice, trust nothing - inspect everything. Just like my Grandma at the market in Taiwan.

Ray

"Made in Taiwan" or many other labels are not indicative of their true country of origin. A lot of what is "made" in Taiwan is actually made in China and passed through Taiwan (My uncle has owned several of these manufacturing facilities - keyboards, DVDs, etc). More common is that the basic materials and parts are produced in China and assembled elsewhere. (say in the good ole USofA). Then of course you can slap a 'made in USA' label on it.

We'd be hard pressed to enjoy our standards of living without our ability to manufacturer and take advantage of low cost labor groups in so-called 3rd World countries.

Now let's all go outside and climb. It's too nice to be inside having this discussion.

I don't care if they are the same quality as the old US made cams. It is not patriotic to purchase products not made here. This is what is wrong with us, we have lost our patriotism and aren't buying from US owned companies and/or US made products.

On another note, are all metolius cams still made in the US?

Not intentionally being a d!@k, but.....

Andrew writes:
"'It is not patriotic to purchase products not made here. This is what is wrong with us, we have lost our patriotism and aren't buying from US owned companies and/or US made products.'"

So then do you own absolutely no electronics from the past or present, say a walkman/discman, computer, microwave, car (no matter what brand, foreign components), etc..... Some clothing, other goods also, this is where you check manufacturing labels, and read? Guess what, probably not all products from our shores.....

There is so many things not made in America anymore. So then does that make all of us non-patriotic. Sorry bud, don't buy that crap pie for a moment. It's the way of cheap labor and companies wanting to increase profit margins. Hard to get away from it also. Especially when companies get kick backs and tax breaks for moving their operations overseas. I had worked for a company that moved it's operations to "more strategic areas for production", for an increase in profit margin? Is there a true resolution for it all? Let's face it, we as Americans sometimes, key word (but you can bash me if you care too), SOMETIMES feel that we deserve more than we're worth. That hasn't helped our cause either. Just my couple of pennies.

Juan

no1nprtclr wrote:So then do you own absolutely no electronics from the past or present, say a walkman/discman, computer, microwave, car (no matter what brand, foreign components), etc..... Some clothing, other goods also, this is where you check manufacturing labels, and read? ... It's the way of cheap labor and companies wanting to increase profit margins.

Well, lets see I bought a Dell computer, this is an American owned company so much of the profits still come back to the US even though the middle and lower class lost their jobs. This is the best option I saw for computer these days.

And maybe if you stopped to read the whole post and note that I mentioned US owned as well you wouldn't have to be a d!ck! I mean do you really ever pay any attention or do your research?

Half of my T-shirts were made in the US, if you get your a$$ up you can find the stuff. And my shirts only cost $10-$20 > the same price of a designer The North Face t-shirt, etc.

And don't b!tch to me when they take your job away from you and move it to China. In fact I hope and pray they do so you will wake up and stop sending out assets to other countries....

Andrew Luke wrote:It is not patriotic to purchase products not made here.

How about those Koflachs you're selling Andrew...um...not an American made or owned product there. But hey, good for you for being a true patriot and wearing American Made T-shirts (half the time)! Just sayin...

I don't buy into this whole patriotism stuff. Its such an archaic term. We live in a Globalized world now. We can communicate and do business with other continents in a millisecond. Its is absurd to try and have America revert back to isolationism and make America into a giant Bio-dome and be completely self sufficient.

Tim

Tea wrote: How about those Koflachs you're selling Andrew...um...not an American made or owned product there. But hey, good for you for being a true patriot and wearing American Made T-shirts (half the time)! Just sayin...

Ya got me, but then what American owned or made company makes plastic expedition boots? Besides I didn't buy those new I traded for them new. They are sold now. I am not saying it is always possible. I will say that when buying new I always try to buy American owned and made products. If you are buying used it really doesn't matter though

all I am saying is our country is going to be in trouble if we continue to send all of our jobs overseas, look at the trends there is no end in sight. So once all of the middle and lower class has lost all of the manufacturing jobs then they won't be able to pay for any of the service jobs, the only jobs left will be service jobs working for the middle to upper class. No one will have money to buy the products because they all lost their jobs so then even the US companies that took the jobs from the Americans and gave them to cheap labor. These companies will fold then somebody will step in and we will be a communist country. You won't be able to climb anymore because the government will have you working hard for little money...

A bit extreme

ps. the other half are made for American owned companies so that is half as good. I ain't saying that BD is bad, personally I would rather support them than Wild Country, not that their products are bad, I have some used stuff...

Everyone has their own opinion, all I am saying is that back in the day when Americans felt it patriotic to buy American we weren't loseing our jobs to cheap labor.

George Perkins wrote:are Aliens made in the USA ???

Hahaha, so American made doesn't always mean safety, quality. Still a good design I think they should have sold the design to Metolius who can make them safe insteadd of them designing the (in my opinion) slightly inferior Master cam...

Perhaps you might feel better with some gear made right here in the good old usa. Perhaps in Wy. Maybe some Aliens. I don't think there are any chinese people working in their factory. Just a guess though.

Andrew Luke wrote:I don't care if they are the same quality as the old US made cams. It is not patriotic to purchase products not made here. This is what is wrong with us, we have lost our patriotism and aren't buying from US owned companies and/or US made products. On another note, are all metolius cams still made in the US?

The ignorance of this statement is mind blowing. Buying from US companies does not constitute patriotism. The US as a whole will be far better off if we allow the best producers to produce and sell things. If a foreign producer produces equivalent widgets more cheaply, they are the better producer. This is an economics 101, comparative advantage (please look this up) question.

The US doesn't have a comparative advantage when it comes to wages so if that is the main cost it is better to due in a lower wage place like China. I'd bet C4's where designed in the US though, because we have a comparative advantage (over china) when it comes to knowledge and experience designing climbing equipment.

BTW I work in manufacturing in the US. We're still in business because we're good, specialized, and highly automated (low labor/wages). So following your logic it would be patriotic to buy from me. Wait?...we're owned by a company from Chile...? An incompetent american conglomerate that owned us went bankrupt and a company from Chile, that we were a competitor with, bought us because we were still the best in the field. The whole world is now intertwined...get used to it.

If you want to not buy from china because you don't think supporting a human rights violating government is a good idea, i understand that reasoning. And yes we need to work on improving our trade agreements with many countries, but trying to reduce trade (by not buying things) won't help with this.

Honestly call me crazy, but when I buy a cam, patriotism isn't exactly the first thing that crosses my mind. I'd somewhat rather know that I'm buying the cam thats going to save my life, falling in a patriotic manner isn't quiet my cup of tea....

Jus my .02

Tom Woods wrote: Yes, globalism is here to stay, and things are very complicated and not necessarily what they appear to be. But economics 101 works only when everyone is playing by the same rules -- and they clearly are not. The Europeans have understood this and taken appropriate action that has worked. Over the past 40 years the US has taken a very laizzez faire attitude towards bad (i.e., unfair) trading partners (which would include Europe from time to time, e.g., the Airbus consortium). Other countries are smart enough to support manufacturing with tax, educational and other policies. We have not been similarly intelligent, and it has been to our great detriment, as evidenced by the massive shrinkage of the manufacturing sector of our economy, and the continued dumbing-down of our workforce. There are also important national security aspects to this phenomenon. Do you really think the Chinese will sell us parts for cruise missiles when we no longer have the capability to manufacture them?

I for the most part agree with what you say, except we shouldn't have the government specifically supporting high labor manufacturing, through taxes. Those days are gone, at least until the rest of the world wages rise up more. As for trade deals, we've been bad ourselves e.g. agriculture tariffs/farm subsidies, and these are the things that other countries point at and say, "if you get some, we get some" and then they pick the best product for them, rather than the political one we have (because Iowa votes first/big farm lobby). The defense industry is in no danger of competition from china (so it one of the most inefficient sectors of manufacturing) and I'd bet they'd sell us the parts anyway;-)

I don't think it has anything to do with Patriotism. I served my country well with alot of others and I love this country! I don't see where this has anything to do with patriotism. The U.S. does trade with China. A cam is a cam. If it works well, don't worry where it comes from. Just my two cent's.......Nothing less...nothing more...!