Madness in rock canyon.

Coeus wrote:Greg D how can one bolt rock as you suggest is okay, and leave the rock as you found it?.

Point granted. This does sound like a conflict. What is most important IMHO is if fixed gear is absolutely necessay be discrete such as camoflouged bolts. A "leave not trace" or at least a leave almost no trace mantra benefits everyone.

Access is everyone's responsibility.

ha you guys are too funny, but im arguing w/ sport climbers, about what a climber is.. my def. is ..its a person that climbs rocks... ha.. harding would be ashamed of you guys

and yea jim- grow up in the "modern society terms" i def. dont want to do that.

and how hard is it to walk atop the crag- rap down and clean your draws?

But yea rock up here sucks!

Lucas,

I am sorry your mom Sarah is out of town right now - I am sure you miss her - but you are over your data limit and this is going to cut into your gas money for the snow machines.

BTW, Can you see Russia from your favorite climbs?

Why do you guys swallow the hook every time? He has more time than the rest of you for trolling and harasing (he's 18). He lives in Alaska and likes to rock climb for gods sake. Pity, but don't encourage.

PT

o, you think your funny palintrain, ...

so i was thinking if i changed my age from 18 to say 54 on my profile or made a new one. You guys would agree w/ me. But hey its cool, check out this video I watched in my psych
class

Around here, normal people don't consider a set draws left on a climb to be "crag booty". That's asinine.

It's stealing. Only a total jackass would steal someone elses stuff like that and there's no defense for it.
In south Utah County, I've seen several climbs with draws left on them all summer and noone takes them. Albeit, they're in kind of out of the way places.
I hope you run into the jackass with your draws and are able to get thme back, Justin. But the odds of that happening probably aren't very good.

Palin train.

That was beautiful.

Style points nod on that one. Your definitely not from Wasilla.

PT

One can only hope morons like Lucas are too busy trolling to vote, this country is in enough trouble.
Also, it doesn't matter whether your 50 or 18, stealing is stealing, and if you think it's OK, your showing yourself to be the self absorbed dip stick you are.
With any luck Putin will crash his jet into your house. You won't be missed. In fact it may be the revival of Glasnost we need right now.

Justin, if you drill a route down here on Mt. Lemmon no one will mess with your draws. We leave 'em up all the time.

I frigging hate thieves!! Sorry they ripped you off dude.

Jimbo wrote:One can only hope morons like Lucas are too busy trolling to vote, this country is in enough trouble. Also, it doesn't matter whether your 50 or 18, stealing is stealing, and if you think it's OK, your showing yourself to be the self absorbed dip stick you are. With any luck Putin will crash his jet into your house. You won't be missed. In fact it may be the revival of Glasnost we need right now. Justin, if you drill a route down here on Mt. Lemmon no one will mess with your draws. We leave 'em up all the time. I frigging hate thieves!! Sorry they ripped you off dude.

hahahaah your fiesty one. a little violent and compulsive also.

but I will be missed more than you, hahahahahahah.

If you read the post I am against all that, I just thinks its dumb as shit to leave your stuff out, because your too lazy to walk around and wrap in the dark.

Man I had no idea so many climbers were pissy! What can I say...

If someone leaves anything behind, its mine. I will not clip left behind hanging draws I will take them and assume they were left behind because they were not wanted. How many of these posts do we have to see before people wise up. But then again keep it up, and thanks for the free gear.

John Shaw wrote:If someone leaves anything behind, its mine. I will not clip left behind hanging draws I will take them and assume they were left behind because they were not wanted. How many of these posts do we have to see before people wise up. But then again keep it up, and thanks for the free gear.

doesn't seem like you have any morals as a human. Thief. Go rob a drug store and stay away from others hard earned gear.

John Shaw wrote:If someone leaves anything behind, its mine. I will not clip left behind hanging draws I will take them and assume they were left behind because they were not wanted. How many of these posts do we have to see before people wise up. But then again keep it up, and thanks for the free gear.

Troll alert !!!

If I ever caught anyone booting my gear it would be all I could do to keep from hanging them from their own rope, and shoving a stick-clip up their ass! Seriously can someone not work on a project and leave their gear without having to worry about some dumbass taking it. Everyone always says..."oh I thought someone left it and didn't want it". That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. No one in their right mind would not want their hard-earned gear. You people are stupid and if I ever catch you gear thieves in Utah, I'll bolt a route on your forehead!

Justin sorry about your draws and I hope they weren't too expensive. Maybe Darren can give you a good deal on new ones. Someone needs to invent bait-draws.

If the route isn't so steep that cleaning the draws doesn't require seconding, then clean 'em before you leave. Its easy to set them back up with the stick clip/bolt to bolt/aid trick.

It would also be worthwhile to set up a sting. Sure it means wasting a few days but catching the vermin red-handed would be worth it. Now I'm starting to picture a couple of skinny-ass sport climbers throwing down; thats an amusing mental picture.

Mike wrote: "Now I'm starting to picture a couple of skinny-ass sport climbers throwing down; thats an amusing mental picture.
Yeah, you gotta admit that the featherwight division is fun to watch. Those guys do have speed working for them.

For some reason certain climbers feel that by leaving draws on a climb this gives them a sense of ownership of that climb. Clean up after yourself or find yourself short some gear. Why anyone would leave behind, in some cases hundreds of dollars in gear is beyond me. I will continue to teach people lessons until they learn. And I love the idea of a sting, I can picture it now a group of girlfriend/wife-less sport climbers wasting days on end waiting for someone to show up and clean these abandoned draws just so they can confront that person. Brilliant!

I've never taken anyones draws off, or ever plan to. but i always get a little annoyed when people leave them up on routes. the biggest reason is that they are an eyesore, i'm guessing most hikers that pass through areas we climb would agree with that. even in most remote areas, if the draws are up more than a few days people are going to see them, especially in wasatch mtns.

To add to what Paul Stoner (sweet last name) is saying; Most times cliffs are shut down or closed it is because land managers SEE traces of humans that were left behind(intentionally or not). One of the biggest threats to access is when a ranger sees evidence of climbers leaving their sh1t behind. Leaving draws on a project is no different than leaving crashpads under boulders at rocky mnt NP or at mt Evans (both threaten access to these places in the front range). Not that I agree with land managers, but they are one ones making and enforcing the rules. One of the things front rangers have done to show land managers that we do actually care and can manage ourselves, is to remove those items left behind and to post on-line that we have their sh1t. If accurately identified, the sh1t is returned to the owner with a polite explanation that their laziness is going to ruin it for all of us that enjoy these resources. I'm NOT advocating stealing the draws, just removing them and returning them to the owner in order to keep access open. Besides, any (sport) climb can be fully equipped with a stick clip at any time.
PS How many trad climbers out there leave their cams in their sick project (for longer than 1 day) for pink-pointing?

ahem..

Trad climbers don't know what a pink point is.

You either climbed it or aided it.

PT

Top 10 Reason why not to leave gear on projects

10. Considered an eye sore by others (Leave no Trace or as little as possible).

9. Someone will take them.

8. Someone else do the project route before you.

7. Some dumb shit will take them.

6. The climbing community is no long a community.

5. Some fucking dumb shit will take them.

4. It may take so long for you to do the route, the draw will rot

3. Some stupid fucking dumb shit will take them.

2. Leaving draws on a route is like a dog pissing on a pole. It may mark your spot but it does not prevent another from coming a long and pissing again and taking your mark.

1. We will not have to put up with yet another someone stole my draws thread.